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  1. #11
    Cdebru Cdebru is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    There are 10 million or so Palestinian refugees today. And they have been wildly indoctrinated and radicalised.




    This goes way back, btw.

    Read this excellent article from 1961 - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...estine/304203/

    Written in 1961: "... The refugees' misery is in the head. They are sick in their minds from a diet of propaganda, official Arab dogma and homemade fantasy, which they have gobbled for nineteen years. Schooled in self-pity, encouraged to believe they are the worlds unique victims of injustice, they have never been allowed to forget the daydream past or to settle for the real future. Since the third Arab-Israel war hardly touched them, they learned nothing from it..."
    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    Also, listen to these recent words of this Palestinian:

    "... Three years ago, I went to visit the Palestinian village of Qariut, located between Ramalla and Nablus. The Israeli occupation confiscated their land and established a settlement called Eli. When I left the people in Qariut I asked them once specific question: if the Israelis were to evacuate Eli settlements tomorrow, would you agree to give the land and the houses for your brothers, the refugees? And nobody agreed.

    So, if even the Palestinians are not willing to accept this right of return, how can we expect Israelis will do it?..."

    And they are not going to disappear if you just leave them sitting in refugee camps, so the eventual solution has to involve them as well, otherwise you are leaving a gaping festering sore on your borders which is also destabilising your neighbours as well.

    Also a vox pop of a few people in one village is not an accurate reflection of Palestinians as a whole.

    Also there are not 10 million refugees there are 7.2million worldwide, but not all of them will return anyway, and some of the refugees are already in the west bank and Gaza,
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  2. #12
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    Also, listen to these recent words of this Palestinian moderate, who is working to try and achieve a realistic peace:

    "... Three years ago, I went to visit the Palestinian village of Qariut, located between Ramalla and Nablus. The Israeli occupation confiscated their land and established a settlement called Eli. When I left the people in Qariut I asked them once specific question: if the Israelis were to evacuate Eli settlements tomorrow, would you agree to give the land and the houses for your brothers, the refugees? And nobody agreed.

    So, if even the Palestinians are not willing to accept this right of return, how can we expect Israelis will do it?..."
    What is their name? Are they with an organization?
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  3. #13
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdebru View Post
    ...And they are not going to disappear if you just leave them sitting in refugee camps, so the eventual solution has to involve them as well, otherwise you are leaving a gaping festering sore on your borders which is also destabilising your neighbours as well...
    Of course not. But why should Israel be the ultimate victim of such a cynical strategy?

    It has been the Arab countries that have kept the Palestinians in refugee camps, using them as pawns in an abominable "law-fare" - refusing to resettle any of them in their own countries, turning them into cheap and defenseless labor, feeding them false hopes that they will one day return to the same homes they left 70 years ago in what is now Israel.

    Their number has been massively increased. They have been indoctrinated to think a certain way as per that old Atlantic article I linked. (And the video I posted). Those are the facts. So what do you do with those facts.


    EDIT And let's get realistic and more clear about what really happened in 1948. Lose the propaganda and slogans ourselves. e.g. https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/l...nians-1.896017
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  4. #14
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    What is their name? Are they with an organization?
    Oh, he is obviously an ensnared victim of "Jewish magic" and Witchcraft.
    - Witchcraft in the Zionist colonial project. | Political Irish

    Listen, go to hell with your continual poison and insinuation and smears against the Jews and against Israel.
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  5. #15
    Cdebru Cdebru is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    Of course not. But why should Israel be the ultimate victim of such a cynical strategy?

    It has been the Arab countries that have kept the Palestinians in refugee camps, using them as pawns in an abominable "law-fare" - refusing to resettle any of them in their own countries, turning them into cheap and defenseless labor, feeding them false hopes that they will one day return to the same homes they left 70 years ago in what is now Israel.

    Their number has been massively increased. They have been indoctrinated to think a certain way as per that old Atlantic article I linked. (And the video I posted). Those are the facts. So what do you do with those facts.


    EDIT And let's get realistic and more clear about what really happened in 1948. Lose the propaganda and slogans ourselves. e.g. https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/l...nians-1.896017

    Eh because it was the Israelis they were fleeing from into refugee camps, why should Israel think it can displace people and they should become someone elses problem ?

    What do you do ? You try and address the issues as to why they are living in camps, and what makes them easy to radicalise, you try and give them a future in a shared homeland, as equal citizens, with a say in their country.

    I'm not saying it will be easy, I just don't see the two state as a viable option, and the current situation is just a recipe for continued violence and instability , both for Israel and the Palestinians and it's neighbours.
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  6. #16
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdebru View Post
    Eh because it was the Israelis they were fleeing from into refugee camps, why should Israel think it can displace people and they should become someone elses problem ?
    That is simplistic. As per the link to the Irish Times letter I gave above.

    But this is a big part of the problem. - It is not only the refugees in thrall to these long heinous lists of "crimes" committed by the Israeli Jews. e.g. We also have:

    "Apartheid"
    "Ethnic cleansing"
    Scheming to "Judaize Jerusalem"
    "Crimes against humanity"
    Exercising "terrorism"
    "Theft of land"
    Practices of "discrimination and extremism".

    (please ignore title and end of the video linked above. Just observe the Goebbels like repetition of the Arab countries of the above "crimes" in the beginning of it. This is the point I want to illustrate.)

    As long as such a narrative is kept up, there is only one "solution" that is ever going to occur. - It is a solution of "retribution" for the above long list of abominable crimes. Retributive justice.
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  7. #17
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    Keep the bigger picture in mind. The killings and conflict go way back. Here is one illustrative view of the bigger picture.


    Its seems the Romans found the secret to peace though banning Jewish customs, slaughtering hundreds of thousands may be a hard sell.
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  8. #18
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    Oh, he is obviously an ensnared victim of "Jewish magic" and Witchcraft.
    - Witchcraft in the Zionist colonial project. | Political Irish

    Listen, go to hell with your continual poison and insinuation and smears against the Jews and against Israel.
    I take it you didn't read the post. It completely destroys any Religious justification for the Zionist colonial project and so is an extremely important matter;

    "When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming."

    Deuteronomy 18:9-11.

    This is why I believe that the Zionist colonial project despite it's "Samson Option" doctrine will fail. The Palestinians are either Muslim, Christian or "rational" atheists over whelmingly while as among the Zionists in Palestine all sorts of witchcraft, hocus pocus and black magic is rife. Listen to this interview with a Christian Zionist who did all sorts of things to aid the Zionist colonial project until he found out how common magic is among the Zionists there which caused him to stop helping them even if sadly he remains "Dispensational" in his Theology. Listening to it flushed out the support for Zionism from my sister's soul;

    VFTB 215: Dr. Michael Bennett – Jewish Magic – A View from the Bunker
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  9. #19
    Cdebru Cdebru is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    That is simplistic. As per the link to the Irish Times letter I gave above.

    But this is a big part of the problem. - It is not only the refugees in thrall to these long heinous lists of "crimes" committed by the Israeli Jews. e.g. We also have:

    "Apartheid"
    "Ethnic cleansing"
    Scheming to "Judaize Jerusalem"
    "Crimes against humanity"
    Exercising "terrorism"
    "Theft of land"
    Practices of "discrimination and extremism".

    (please ignore title and end of the video linked above. Just observe the Goebbels like repetition of the Arab countries of the above "crimes" in the beginning of it. This is the point I want to illustrate.)

    As long as such a narrative is kept up, there is only one "solution" that is ever going to occur. - It is a solution of "retribution" for the above long list of abominable crimes. Retributive justice.
    See I think you are expecting the Arab countries and the Palestinians to just forget about everything and say, whatever Israel did in the past is all forgotten about, in the absence of an overall settlement. That is not going to happen, but it can happen I believe in the context of an overall settlement, not an imposed setlement, not a half settlement that leaves Palestinians sitting in refugee camps but allows jews to "return" to a land they have far less connection with the people living in refugee camps have.

    You want peace before you agree a peace settlement, that won't happen(obviously you would need short term peace while both sides negotiate, but you are not going to have long term peace and an acceptance of Israel before a settlement)
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  10. #20
    roc_ roc_ is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    ... For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming[/B]."[/url]
    Yes, this kind of thing illustrates well my point above about "retributive justice" - - the theory of justice that considers proportionate punishment to be the apt response to "crime."

    In this regard I ask myself have you people seriously considered what would balance the scales of justice adequately with respect to the "crimes" they so easily and nearly always superficially repeat and repeat against them?

    Then I wonder whether the people on here who take up these slogans with such relish are familiar with the speeches in the Reichstag 90 years ago, and the slogans similarly wielded, about the Jews being "international world swindlers", "convicted scoundrels and budding crooks" desiring to create a "safe haven" in Palestine, removed from the intervention of other states, so they could carry on their dastardly deeds with impunity, and who committed "genocide" during the holocaust of Holodomr and so on and so on.

    All building up to an eventual "retributive justice".
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