Villiers-le-Bel Paris 27 November 2007

[The SR]

Yes completely untrue. Why did you ignore my reply showing you thyat you were completely wrong?

What reply? I have provided links, you are disputing the semantics. You labelled them criminals with no proof. Put up your proof of this before you accuse others
.

And if the Gardai are so hated then why do we not see large scale rioting in this country? Considering the Gardai are unarmed and have less numbers and equipment than the French?

What happened on O'Connell St 2 years ago?

[Garda]

What? they stole a bike, had no licenses, no insurance, broke a red light and rammed into the side of a Police car. Thats not a criminal?

O'Connell Street was the peoples massing against the police was it? Thats how that came across?

And what links? You provided one at the start which didnt even support your claim.

[Garda]

Just for you seeing as you somehow missed it:

This is the first place I have heard them refered to as 'scumbags' and that they were stealing. No doubt you will back these nasty allegations up with some sort of link.

Like this one that refers to the police ramming the bike and leaving the scene.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/ ... 38,00.html

Actually it doesnt say anything about the police ramming them and merely states that a "resident claimed" the police left the scene. However using your own link I also found;
"At about 5pm on Sunday, a mini-motorcycle and a police car on patrol collided, killing 15-year-old Moushin and his friend Larami, 16. Police said the teenagers were driving an unregistered vehicle and were not wearing helmets."

And spending 5 minutes online produced these:

1. "Police sources said the two were riding a stolen mini-motorcycle, and that neither was wearing a helmet."
2. "Witnesses have accused the police of leaving the scene and of preventing local people from trying to help the youngsters as they lay in the road. "
3. "The police car was on a routine patrol and the teenagers were not being chased by police at the time of the accident"
4. "Two witnesses said the police car was driving at 40 - 50kph (25 - 30mph) and had no revolving lights or siren on. "
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7112497.stm)

5. "Some witnesses say the motorcycle, carrying two youths who were not wearing helmets, crashed at high speed into the side of a police car during a routine patrol."
(http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1127/france.html)

6. "Police said the teens drove through a red light without wearing helmets and on an unregistered bike."
(http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ ... index.html)

7. "the two teenagers were driving a stolen motorcycle and that neither of them was wearing a helmet. At the time of the collision with the police car, they were driving at high speed and they failed to cede the right of way to the police cruiser, DPA reports"
(http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Clashes_ ... 11009.html)

8. "three eyewitnesses, interviewed on TV, said the police stayed and tried to revive the two boys with mouth to mouth resuscitationMore "
(http://www.enews20.com/news_Riots_Rock_ ... 04010.html)

So you have residents stating that the police ran away but also stopped others from helping. How can you do both? Your either at the scene or your not. I also doubt 2 lone police officers could stop a large crowd.

I have as you asked produced multiple quotes supporting my claim that they were A, driving a stolen bike. Therefore commiting the crime of stealing. B, Drove in a dangerous manner such as high speed and breaking a red light and C, shown more witnesses stating that the police not only stayed but also tried to revive the teens.

Also I should mention that they were 15 and 16. Too young to have trained, tested and been licensed to ride a motorbike of that type.

The only mention of what caused the crash states that they ran into the police cars side therefore the only 'ramming' was by them.


So yes, I do think they are scumbags. They stole someones property and drove in a manner likely to kill innocent people witho no regard for what they were doing. If they were so flippant with life why should I weep for them? Now do you accept that they were in the wrong based on the current information or are you simple to hell bent on blaming the police?

[The SR]

Garda, any chance of some non-police quotes in the immediate aftermath of the deaths

This kind of thing

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jeFc ... AD8T6TBM00

On Wednesday, Sarkozy described the incident that sparked the latest violence — the deaths of two teenage boys killed Sunday in an accident with a police car in the Paris suburb of Villiers-le-Bel — as "distressing."

"So that things are very clear: What has happened is absolutely unacceptable," Sarkozy said after meeting with a police captain hospitalized in Eaubonne, north of Paris, after returning from a trip to China.

Later the president met with families of the teenagers and told them a judicial inquiry had been opened into the deaths, their lawyer, Jean-Pierre Mignard, said.

The inquiry will allow the parents to "participate actively in finding out the truth. Nothing will be hidden," Mignard said.

Questions about the circumstances of the accident triggered the rioting in Villiers-le-Bel, a working class town of low-rise public housing and verdant squares. The belief that police were at fault prompted rioters to burn down a library, preschool and several stores earlier this week.

[popper]

prompted rioters to burn down a library, preschool and several stores

What sort of scum in all seriousness burn down libraries and schools? In their own neighbourhood?

[Zyklon B]

People that are undeserving of hand outs from the French state. Vive Jean-Marie Le Pen!!!!!