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  1. #21
    Trampas Trampas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadjodilo
    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan
    Why do you think the US cares about Kosovo. They don't do anything for free. Kosovo can break away from Serbia but it won't be independent until the NATO occupation ends.
    While you indulge in your geo-political ramblings and conspiracy theorising from the safety of your cosy West European armchair, might I point out that the Kosovans overwhelmingly welcome the protection they receive from NATO. It's their only defence from the same treatment that the Serbs dished out in all Muslim males in Srebrenica.

    Mass Extermination.
    Yes, but what about those who will soon need protection from the protected ?
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  2. #22
    Gadjodilo Gadjodilo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    The US and the EU wants a peaceful, stable and democratic Kosovo to develop. They are only there because of what happened at the end of the 90's. ......
    Exactly, it was outrage in the US and European countries over what the Serbs were doing (yet again!) that led to NATO intervention.
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  3. #23
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadjodilo
    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan
    Why do you think the US cares about Kosovo. They don't do anything for free. Kosovo can break away from Serbia but it won't be independent until the NATO occupation ends.
    While you indulge in your geo-political ramblings and conspiracy theorising from the safety of your cosy West European armchair, might I point out that the Kosovans overwhelmingly welcome the protection they receive from NATO. It's their only defence from the same treatment that the Serbs dished out in all Muslim males in Srebrenica.

    Mass Extermination.
    So its a conspiracy theory to suggest the US wants something in return for its protection, but not a conspiracy for you to suggest

    "It's all about undermining Georgia which DARED to break free of Russian domination"

    and

    "He stirred up the Serb minority in Kosovo in 1987 and used their "plight" to crack down on Albanians. That was what started the movements in Croatia and Slovenia for independence"

    You have an interesting definition of "conspiracy theory"
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  4. #24
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadjodilo
    I don't deny that there were revenge attacks. That's human nature and I don't condone it. But that is not sufficient reason to deny self-determination to the Kosovars. By the same logic, the RoI should have been denied independence in 1922 out of concern for a few Big Houses.
    We were talking about whether the Serb minority was safe in an independent Kosovo - not whether Kosovo should be allowed independence.

    Clearly Kosovo should be allowed independence and the Serbs are not safe.
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  5. #25
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadjodilo
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    The US and the EU wants a peaceful, stable and democratic Kosovo to develop. They are only there because of what happened at the end of the 90's. ......
    Exactly, it was outrage in the US and European countries over what the Serbs were doing (yet again!) that led to NATO intervention.
    Hardly, The US has no interest in the welfare of Kosovars. The used the serb attacks to justify an invasion for their own reasons. There is a lot of evidence that the US trained and supported the more radical elements of the KLA in order to provoke the Serbs into attacks.

    (thats not to excuse the Serb actions, but to ignore the US motive is naive)
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  6. #26
    Halo Halo is offline

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    yeee repartition, Armagh, Derry, tyrone and fermanagh to join the free state!!!!
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  7. #27
    MichaelR MichaelR is offline

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    The Serbian forces in Kosovo were only policing proper order and suppressing KLA terrorists. (I did say in Kosovo, not in Bosnia which was a case of rogue nationalists spinning out of any state's control).

    The US/NATO aggression in 1999 was exactly that - aggression; "ethnic cleansing" was simply faked as people were directed to leave by the KLA terrorists, and the CNN teams were there ready to proclaim things to the world.

    Milosevic may have been a bad politician, but he was not guilty of crimes against humanity; the Hague court could not prove him guilty so he was murdered (or "let die" without adequate medical help) in captivity.

    But at present, despite past KLA crimes, Serbia is not against an independent Kosovo. Rather, it wants a package deal with Kosovo independent and Serbia a member of the EU. What's wrong with that? Serbia is no longer ruled by Milosevic's team; why would Europe leave them out in the cold?
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  8. #28
    Gadjodilo Gadjodilo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan
    So its a conspiracy theory to suggest the US wants something in return for its protection, but not a conspiracy for you to suggest

    "It's all about undermining Georgia which DARED to break free of Russian domination"

    and

    "He stirred up the Serb minority in Kosovo in 1987 and used their "plight" to crack down on Albanians. That was what started the movements in Croatia and Slovenia for independence"

    You have an interesting definition of "conspiracy theory"
    The second part of what I said is on public record. I'm not suggesting - by the way - that he did all this to get Croatia and Slovenia to declare UDI. But the Kosovo thing was all for the benefit of the career of Slobodan Milosevic.

    Meanwhile, the Russians have historically regarded all the small nations around their perimeter as being their own backyard - the "Near Abroad". This imperialist attitude predates the Soviet Union by more than a century. Hence their involvement with anti-democratic forces in Ukraine, the banning of Polish products, undermining of Moldova, sudden increases in gas prices for former allies who aren't toeing the line any more etc.

    Their proxy regimes in Georgia are just another part of this.

    My conspiracy theories hold water. Yours don't. Give me one strategic or economic reason why the Americans would want Kosovo. Face the nasty truth: sometimes those Yankee Devils can act for altruistic reasons!
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  9. #29
    Gadjodilo Gadjodilo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan
    We were talking about whether the Serb minority was safe in an independent Kosovo - not whether Kosovo should be allowed independence.

    Clearly Kosovo should be allowed independence and the Serbs are not safe.
    Okay. But measures can be put in place to guarantee their safety. As it happens, they're concentrated in one small pocket in the north of Kosovo around Mitrovica.
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  10. #30
    Gadjodilo Gadjodilo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan
    Hardly, The US has no interest in the welfare of Kosovars. The used the serb attacks to justify an invasion for their own reasons. There is a lot of evidence that the US trained and supported the more radical elements of the KLA in order to provoke the Serbs into attacks.
    Like I said before, why would the USA bother to do this? Kosovo has no strategic value.
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