Register to Comment
Page 355 of 607 FirstFirst ... 255305345353354355356357365405455 ... LastLast
Results 3,541 to 3,550 of 6069
Like Tree2870Likes
  1. #3541
    myksav myksav is offline

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    34,621

    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    This is just obtuse stupidity on your part.

    Turkey and Jordan have facilitated thousands of jihadists flowing into Syria, allong with the weapons and supplies for those jihadists. This is arguably an act of war.
    Ah, then you wish Syria to declare war on Jordan and Turkey. Which would automatically bring the Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and the United States, into a war footing under the terms of NATO membership.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #3542
    parentheses parentheses is offline
    parentheses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,166

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren84 View Post
    . Meanwhile the usual anti American nuts have presented NO evidence to show it was the rebels who carried out the attacks.
    I dunno if you're dishonest or have a cognitive disability. The article blaming rebels has been posted several times.

    Syrians in Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack by Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh -- Antiwar.com
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #3543
    Truth.ie Truth.ie is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    30,813

    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    I dunno if you're dishonest or have a cognitive disability. The article blaming rebels has been posted several times.

    Syrians in Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack by Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh -- Antiwar.com
    Not to mention the video by the terrorists testing their chemical weapons on rabbits, and threatening to use them on minorities.
    The Syrian Govt have pledged not to use C.W, and have denied this attack last week.
    I believe them.
    I wouldn't trust the FSA rats, Saudis, Mossad or the CIA if my life depended on it.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #3544
    Ribeye Ribeye is offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    27,912

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren84 View Post
    I'll ask again. WHAT evidence is there that exonerates Assad of firing these chemical missiles? Because so far we've had reports of telephone intercepts between Syrian army command and the 4th Division ordering the strike three days before hand. Meanwhile the usual anti American nuts have presented NO evidence to show it was the rebels who carried out the attacks. Just the usual "the Americans are bastards, so they are" routine.
    Lol

    Yes, that's hard evidence alright,

    BaA - "order the chemical weapon strike General"

    Gen - "yes sir Mr President, just hang on a tick while I grab my mobile, ring the 4th and instruct them to fire the rockets, ah damn, there's no signal in here, I'll have to pop outside,

    What's next, nuclear launch codes sent via WhatsApp?

    Give me strength,
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #3545
    earwicker earwicker is offline
    earwicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    4,175

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren84 View Post
    Why does it always have to be a choice between Assad and violent Jihadists with you anti Westerners? There IS a liberal, progressive alternative in Syria opposed to both Assad and AQAP/Al Nusra.

    My sig sums up the binary mentality of many nutters on this site.
    Cool it with the name-calling.

    Do you really think that the coalition of anti-state forces will suddenly enact a liberal, progressive democracy when the US bombs stop falling and Assad has had a knife shoved up his arse in a glorious act of justice?

    Now, such a democracy may stand a ghost of a chance if there is a significant UN peacekeeping force on the ground for years to back it up, but no-one's ready to talk about that.

    You don't think it more likely that there'll be a lot more infighting and bloodletting if and when Assad goes? Al-qaeda through Al-Nusra are now an established beachhead in Syria. What will they make of their liberal progressive cohorts? Not much room for such types in the Caliphate.

    And if the West keeps up with its policy of blowing Muslims to bits for their own good, they are doing more to help create believers in the Caliphate. This will not be a winnable war once it kicks off.

    A strictly enforced UN backed ceasefire with boots on the ground is probably the only way to try and get the liberal democracy you mentioned started. But very few people here--I've asked about it a few times to no avail--seem to have considered it as an option.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #3546
    parentheses parentheses is offline
    parentheses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,166

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth.ie View Post
    Not to mention the video by the terrorists testing their chemical weapons on rabbits, and threatening to use them on minorities.
    The Syrian Govt have pledged not to use C.W, and have denied this attack last week.
    I believe them.
    I wouldn't trust the FSA rats, Saudis, Mossad or the CIA if my life depended on it.
    Interestingly that article blaming rebels seems to tie in with claims by the syrian govt. of having found chemical paraphernalia in tunnels in Damascus. And Fisk claimed some hezbollah men in Damascus got poisoned by chemicals around the time of the alleged mass poisoning also
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #3547
    myksav myksav is offline

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    34,621

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard dengler View Post
    Joseph Heller's book, LEHI 1940-1949, retells the lengths to which Avraham Stern (Stern Gang) sought to collaborate with Nazi Germany throughout Palestine in 1941.
    Why are you chewing old fat? To derail the thread? Or just to throw in some "Israel is the baddie" to the mix?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #3548
    myksav myksav is offline

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    34,621

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Dying slowly and painfully is worse than dying quickly and less painfully, but I consider the latter to be sufficiently bad as to warrant intervention.
    Ah, then you want the US to go into Syria.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #3549
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
    Mercurial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    83,957

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribeye View Post
    You seem to think you know an awful lot about me
    I only need to make a couple of assumptions about you to make the claims that I made. I am assuming, for example, that you're not a UN weapons inspector, a Syrian rebel leader, or a member of Assad's regime.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #3550
    harry_w harry_w is offline
    harry_w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    7,952

    This UN inspection team is a strange operation.

    They arrived to do an investigation then immediately diverted themselves from that and haven't completed it, they've apparently decided to give an account outside the terms of their mandate, an "evidence based narrative."

    The UN appear to have blocked their own inspectors from seeking access until the US, British and French said it was too late:

    U.N. Slowing Its Own Chemical Weapons Investigation In Syria | The Cable

    Posted By Colum Lynch, Noah Shachtman Friday, August 23, 2013 - 1:45 PM
    The world's governments are demanding that Syria immediately let United Nations inspectors onto the scene of alleged chemical attacks that killed as many as 1,800. But even if Bashar al-Assad's regime gave the inspectors permission to visit the disputed battlefields right now, they still couldn't leave. The U.N. is blocking its own inspectors, at least for the moment.
    Kevin Kennedy, a retired U.S. Marine colonel who heads the U.N. Department of Safety and Security, told a small group of reporters at U.N. headquarters on Friday that he hasn't given the inspection team a green light to visit the site of the supposed attacks. His office is still carrying out a security assessment to see if it is safe enough to go.
    Syria allowed UN inspectors to extend their mandate, as the US, Britain and France demanded:

    UN allowed access to 'chemical site'
    25 August 2013 Last updated at 16:25 BST
    The Syrian government says it will allow UN weapons inspectors access to the site of Wednesday's alleged chemical attack in Damascus.

    The announcement comes after the UN's disarmament chief Angela Kane met senior members of the regime to argue inspectors should be allowed to visit the site.
    Within 4 hours, the US, Britain and France said it's irrelevant and it's too late to gather evidence:

    UK urges 'serious response' on Syria
    25 August 2013 Last updated at 20:02 BST
    UK Foreign Secretary William Hague says the British government is "clear" that the Syrian government was behind Wednesday's suspected chemical attack in Damascus.

    Mr Hague added that the regime's delay in allowing weapons inspectors to the site may have jeopardised any evidence there.

    He said Prime Minister David Cameron had spoken with President Barack Obama and that both agree there must be a 'serious response.
    UPDATE 3-U.S. says Syria offer to show chemical attack sites 'too late' | Reuters

    Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:12pm EDT
    The Syrian Foreign Ministry said on Sunday it had agreed to allow U.N. inspectors access to sites in suburbs of Damascus where the alleged chemical attacks are said to have occurred last week.

    The senior U.S. official made clear the Syrian government's move was inadequate, saying that if the Syrians had nothing to hide they would have let the inspectors in five days ago after the attack was first reported.

    "At this juncture, any belated decision by the regime to grant access to the U.N. team would be considered too late to be credible, including because the evidence available has been significantly corrupted as a result of the regime's persistent shelling and other intentional actions over the last five days," the official said.

    "Based on the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured, witness accounts, and other facts gathered by open sources, the U.S. intelligence community, and international partners, there is very little doubt at this point that a chemical weapon was used by the Syrian regime against civilians in this incident," the official told Reuters.

    "We are continuing to assess the facts so the president can make an informed decision about how to respond to this indiscriminate use of chemical weapons," the official said.
    Syrian govt greenlights UN chemical weapons probe ? RT News

    Published time: August 25, 2013 12:56
    Edited time: August 26, 2013 11:47
    France also said on Sunday there can be “no doubt” that it’s the Assad regime, which is behind the alleged chemical weapons use near Damascus.

    When asked about the Syrian government’s decision to grant the UN inspectors permission to inspect the sites of the suspected attacks, French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, replied that “this request was already made several days ago” and the location “has been bombed since.”

    "From the moment the substance of the facts is established incontestably, there will necessarily be a strong response," Fabius is cited as saying by AFP.

    The French stance was echoed by the UK’s foreign secretary, William Hague...
    The US President's spokesman has since described them as "redundant", so it seems they've already served their purpose:

    Exclusive: Intercepted Calls Prove Syrian Army Used Nerve Gas, U.S. Spies Say | The Cable

    Posted By Noah Shachtman Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 8:54 PM Share
    American intelligence analysts are certain that chemical weapons were used on Aug. 21 -- the captured phone calls, combined with local doctors' accounts and video documentation of the tragedy -- are considered proof positive. That is why the U.S. government, from the president on down, has been unequivocal in its declarations that the Syrian military gassed thousands of civilians in the East Ghouta region.

    However, U.S. spy services still have not acquired the evidence traditionally considered to be the gold standard in chemical weapons cases: soil, blood, and other environmental samples that test positive for reactions with nerve agent. That's the kind of proof that America and its allies processed from earlier, small-scale attacks that the White House described in equivocal tones, and declined to muster a military response to in retaliation.

    There is an ongoing debate within the Obama administration about whether to strike Assad immediately -- or whether to allow United Nations inspectors to try and collect that proof before the bombing begins. On Tuesday [27th], White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called the work of that team "redundant ... because it is clearly established already that chemical weapons have been used on a significant scale."

    But within the intelligence community, at least, "there's an interest in letting the U.N. piece run its course," the official said. "It puts the period on the end of the sentence."
    I've only seen one reporter question their conduct in detail:

    With UN Team Set to Leave Syria, Who Jettisoned Khan al Asal and Why?

    Inner City Press: Investigative Reporting from the United Nations
    By Matthew Russell Lee
    UNITED NATIONS, August 29 -- The UN chemical weapons team negotiated and got into Syria to investigate three incidents, including Khan al Asal as requested by the Syrian government.
    On August 29, after UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon announced that he spoke with US President Barack Obama and the team would now leave Syria on August 31, Inner City Press asked Ban's spokesperson Farhan Haq if Khan al Asal was looked it.
    In due course, Haq answered.
    Inner City Press asked if that means the UN thinks its team will get back in, even after the type of missile strike that is being publicly discussed. Haq did not answer that.
    Of the 1000 other UN staff, nationals and internationals, still in Syria Inner City Press asked if any of them would be leaving on Saturday with Angela Kane, Ake Sellstrom on the team. This question was not answered.
    Inner City Press asked, who decided to jettison the investigation of Khal al Asal, and how was it decided? The answer appears to be that the team needs to be present as its Ghouta samples are tested. But wouldn't this have been true of the Khal al Asal samples the UN asked to be let in to take?
    The feeling of a rush-job was inescapable. The idea of a second visit by a UN chemical weapons team seems unrealistic. Ban wants to make the UN relevant, or useful.
    When Inner City Press asked Ban's spokesperson Farhan Haq about the team earlier this week, Haq said they would produce an "evidence based narrative." Initially their mandate was to determine only if chemical weapons had been used, not who used them.
    But every narrative has a plot, and this plot appears already written, at least on the American side.

    [...]

    Inner City Press had asked UN spokesperson Farhan Haq at Tuesday's noon briefing when it was that the UN formally requested access to al Ghouta -- on Saturday, August 24 or before? Video here, from Minute 12. Video with captions, on Inner City Press YouTube channel, here and embedded below, with transcript.



    Haq read out a press statement from August 22, in which Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said a request is being sent. Then, Haq said, Ban's High Representative on Disarmament Angela Kane "stepped forward with the request" -- on August 24, Saturday.
    It was granted the next day
    .
    Inner City Press asked again, was there any formal request by the UN other than Ban's press statement, before August 24? Haq called this "semantics." But when Inner City Press asked Ban's spokespeople to respond to widely circulated press releases about a request being made to Ban, the UN says the actual formal request had not been received yet, and so: no comment. Why should the UN say it must be different for Syria?
    How could the UN be so sloppy? Or was it sloppy?
    I've only seen one person anywhere (here) make the basic point that if granting a request within 1 day is too long, within a week of the alleged CW attack, why were they sent to investigate attacks months before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian1 View Post
    Ren you sound like the UK FM "All evidence thus far points", "Mounting evidence" yet that's as deep as it gets. There is no substance behind the soundbites. What evidence? Where are they getting it from? And how can UK FM downplay UN inspection results as evidence may have degraded or been tampered with after 5 days? They were there to investigate use of chemical weapons over 5 months old - but in this instance after 5 days it's useless.
    And the absence of such observations/ comments/questions from the media is startling, as we all march along, singing a song on our merry way to war..
    I suppose they'll have a long story (or "evidence based narrative.").
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment