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  1. #21
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shpake View Post
    Here again I'm searching my memory-cells for the precise definition... but if you are dealing with these jesuitical matters you have to have everything as accurate as possible.
    Mental reservation as I understood it, was where a person (priest?) says something misleading that decieves the other person or deflects/distracts him from his pursuit of the truth/facts and the priest allowing him to believe his "false" interpretation of what has been said. That's my rough definition of what I picked up. Can someone improve on this?

    The matter of cannon law....well that can easily be explained and justified. The nation state and the legal system didn't always exist as it does today. It was built up slowly over hundreds of years. Cannon law is kind of superfluous in the modern world and as we have seen it's toxic and destructive to have a legal system operating surreptitiously in the shadows parallel to the nations legal system. But when Charlemagne was fighting the Visigots, or Brain Boru was fighting the danes, cannon law might have been the best system around at that time and place.
    One could mention countries in South America or Africa where the legal system is so corrupt one could forget it. Cannon law might have been the only show in town is say Idi Amin's Uganda.
    Old Mr Grouser provided this youtube video on another thread.



    Well worth a listen.
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  2. #22
    redsaint redsaint is offline

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    Mental reservation,they are the 2 words that found out the catholic church in our country.
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  3. #23
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    They did in Rome too, apparently, where it was observed that various Irish bishops were operating a sort of l'etat, cest nous system where lying to save themselves was seen by them as lying to save the church.

    Priests aren't allowed to claim 'mental reservation' in order to protect themselves. What we saw from various bishops- and at least one cardinal was 'lying'.
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  4. #24
    Old Mr Grouser Old Mr Grouser is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    One of the Australian Catholic Church's most prominent and senior figures has admitted he advised other clergy it was a good idea not to take notes of interviews with priests accused of sexual abuse so they couldn't be successfully used in legal action. Father Brian Lucas, a frequent media spokesman for the archdiocese of Sydney and general secretary of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference said ...
    I've been googling, Andrew, and here's Fr. Lucas speaking about child abuse and Church finances back in 2010, in front of the Senate Standing Legislation Committee: Economics Committee.

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  5. #25
    Andrew49 Andrew49 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shpake View Post
    Here again I'm searching my memory-cells for the precise definition... but if you are dealing with these jesuitical matters you have to have everything as accurate as possible.
    Mental reservation as I understood it, was where a person (priest?) says something misleading that decieves the other person or deflects/distracts him from his pursuit of the truth/facts and the priest allowing him to believe his "false" interpretation of what has been said. That's my rough definition of what I picked up. Can someone improve on this?

    The matter of cannon law....well that can easily be explained and justified. The nation state and the legal system didn't always exist as it does today. It was built up slowly over hundreds of years. Cannon law is kind of superfluous in the modern world and as we have seen it's toxic and destructive to have a legal system operating surreptitiously in the shadows parallel to the nations legal system. But when Charlemagne was fighting the Visigots, or Brain Boru was fighting the danes, cannon law might have been the best system around at that time and place.
    One could mention countries in South America or Africa where the legal system is so corrupt one could forget it. Cannon law might have been the only show in town is say Idi Amin's Uganda.
    To inadequately answer questions is the best I can come up with.
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  6. #26
    Andrew49 Andrew49 is offline
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    After eight weeks of intense, graphic and sometimes sad testimony, public hearings have ended for the New South Wales special commission of inquiry into clerical abuse in the Maitland-Newcastle diocese, north of Sydney. Around 40 witnesses have given testimony in open court before Commissioner Margaret Cunneen, and many others have been heard in camera, or in closed proceedings.
    New South Wales Premier Barry O'Farrell created the inquiry in November, days before former Prime Minister Julia Gillard called a national royal commission into child sexual abuse in Australia. O'Farrell and Gillard were responding to allegations by a senior police whistleblower, Chief Inspector Peter Fox, who said he could
    "testify from my own experience that the church covers up, silences victims, hinders police investigations, alerts offenders, destroys evidence and moves priests to protect the good name of the church."
    VIDEO:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-0...owards/4875040
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  7. #27
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    I take it the copper is not a Knight of Columbanus then?
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  8. #28
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    you do have to wonder what these degenerates have been up to in countries where they still have influence
    Hell, Bill, I always thought you lived in Ireland!
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  9. #29
    Shpake Shpake is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    The interesting bit about the process of mental reservation which allows priests to be less than forthcoming with the truth is that it can only be defined within the church as 'mental reservation' if it is to defend the church.

    If it is a priest failing to tell the truth in order to protect himself or another priest it doesn't actually qualify as catholic 'mental reservation' and can only be described as 'lying'.

    I hear that the amount of mental reservation among clergy in Ireland caused some ructions at the centre because of this fine distinction and the apparent inability of a number of Irish bishops and clergy to comprehend the difference.

    It was a technique developed by jesuits and they were very specific about when and how it could be used and 'self preservation' was one of the major no-no's.
    Applause for your valiant efforts (and those of all others here on this thread) to get a complete handle on this concept of mental reservation. With heavy heart I have to announce that we will have to call for the assistance of Cruimh (a black Proddy from the North) to put in train his unequaled scholarship and research abilities to ferret out the definitive version of Mental Reservation.
    I hope he doesn't commit any mental reservations in his answer.
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  10. #30
    eoghanacht eoghanacht is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJG View Post
    Australia is 25 per cent catholic, which would put about 1.8m catholics in NSW, about the same as in Leinster. On these figures there were catching up with one rapist every nine or ten weeks. Someone might attribute two or three to a bad run, but after the first dozen rapists, could anyone with even a shred of humanity in them not scream from the rooftops that the system was totally rotten?
    Yes, they could but they were ordered by the Vatican not too, the Vatican are about to canonise the man who instructed these people not to report abuse to the proper authorities.

    Merely pointing that out makes one a bile filled anti-Catholic.
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