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  1. #11
    Andrew49 Andrew49 is offline
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    A speech by Father Lucas titled:: Are Our Archives Safe? An Ecclesial View of Search Warrants was shown to the commission. It was distributed to Church lawyers in 1996 and one of the subheadings was: To Shred or Not to Shred - is That the Question? LAWLINK Pdf

    Lucas also gets a mention on Amazon: Church Administration Handbook: Lucas, Fr. Brian, Slack, Fr. Peter, d'Apice, Mr Bill: 9781921032653: Amazon.com: Books
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  2. #12
    Old Mr Grouser Old Mr Grouser is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    One of the Australian Catholic Church's most prominent and senior figures has admitted he advised other clergy it was a good idea not to take notes of interviews with priests accused of sexual abuse ...
    Here's an Australian news-report, with video - update at 29th February 2016 - that video link has been taken down but there's another relevant video-report here - Recidivist paedophile priest given one way ticket to U.K. to allegedly avoid prosecution
    Last edited by Old Mr Grouser; 29th February 2016 at 11:53 AM.
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  3. #13
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Interesting how this is one of the few professions where paedophiles have to be 'persuaded' to resign.

    I can only conclude that it isn't a biggie in terms of gross professional misconduct in that organisation such that paedophilia isn't a firing offence and viewed as something of a conversation crimper in the staff canteen.
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  4. #14
    Windowshopper Windowshopper is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    Interesting how this is one of the few professions where paedophiles have to be 'persuaded' to resign.

    I can only conclude that it isn't a biggie in terms of gross professional misconduct in that organisation such that paedophilia isn't a firing offence and viewed as something of a conversation crimper in the staff canteen.
    Well that has more to do with the labyrinthine nature of canon law and their court system. Indeed the fact that they have such a state-like court system all plays into the RCC's hubris that they are above domestic laws when it suits them.
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  5. #15
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    Interesting how this is one of the few professions where paedophiles have to be 'persuaded' to resign.

    I can only conclude that it isn't a biggie in terms of gross professional misconduct in that organisation such that paedophilia isn't a firing offence and viewed as something of a conversation crimper in the staff canteen.
    When a senior Canon lawyer publicly questions whether Paedophilia is always 'sinful' .....

    Mind you, consensual sex between adults outside of marriage is always sinful - be they clergy and/or laity.
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  6. #16
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    That canon law nonsense is an emanation of the twisted psychology if ever there was one. Try being a burglar and announcing in a court room that secular law doesn't apply to you because in your religion burglary is forgivable.

    It wouldn't work as a defensive technique. For obvious reasons. I see no reason why a bunch of cross-eyed old men in frocks should be allowed to wave the exemption ju-ju stick either and anyone in public office who thinks otherwise should be removed from that office by way of an obvious inability to comprehend where their duty lies.
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  7. #17
    GJG GJG is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    Father Brian Lucas, a frequent media spokesman for the archdiocese of Sydney and general secretary of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference said he had dealt with about 35 accused priests around NSW from 1990 to 1995 when he was part of a team whose job was to confront them and persuade them out of the ministry.
    Australia is 25 per cent catholic, which would put about 1.8m catholics in NSW, about the same as in Leinster. On these figures there were catching up with one rapist every nine or ten weeks. Someone might attribute two or three to a bad run, but after the first dozen rapists, could anyone with even a shred of humanity in them not scream from the rooftops that the system was totally rotten?
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  8. #18
    Shpake Shpake is offline
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    Here again I'm searching my memory-cells for the precise definition... but if you are dealing with these jesuitical matters you have to have everything as accurate as possible.
    Mental reservation as I understood it, was where a person (priest?) says something misleading that decieves the other person or deflects/distracts him from his pursuit of the truth/facts and the priest allowing him to believe his "false" interpretation of what has been said. That's my rough definition of what I picked up. Can someone improve on this?

    The matter of cannon law....well that can easily be explained and justified. The nation state and the legal system didn't always exist as it does today. It was built up slowly over hundreds of years. Cannon law is kind of superfluous in the modern world and as we have seen it's toxic and destructive to have a legal system operating surreptitiously in the shadows parallel to the nations legal system. But when Charlemagne was fighting the Visigots, or Brain Boru was fighting the danes, cannon law might have been the best system around at that time and place.
    One could mention countries in South America or Africa where the legal system is so corrupt one could forget it. Cannon law might have been the only show in town is say Idi Amin's Uganda.
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  9. #19
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shpake View Post
    Here again I'm searching my memory-cells for the precise definition... but if you are dealing with these jesuitical matters you have to have everything as accurate as possible.
    Mental reservation as I understood it, was where a person (priest?) says something misleading that decieves the other person or deflects/distracts him from his pursuit of the truth/facts and the priest allowing him to believe his "false" interpretation of what has been said. That's my rough definition of what I picked up. Can someone improve on this?

    The matter of cannon law....well that can easily be explained and justified. The nation state and the legal system didn't always exist as it does today. It was built up slowly over hundreds of years. Cannon law is kind of superfluous in the modern world and as we have seen it's toxic and destructive to have a legal system operating surreptitiously in the shadows parallel to the nations legal system. But when Charlemagne was fighting the Visigots, or Brain Boru was fighting the danes, cannon law might have been the best system around at that time and place.
    One could mention countries in South America or Africa where the legal system is so corrupt one could forget it. Cannon law might have been the only show in town is say Idi Amin's Uganda.
    But wouldn't the Boy Scout's Oath have had the same legal claim to relevance? Dib-dib-dib.
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  10. #20
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    'Canon law' only describes a regulatory relationship between catholics and Rome. National law describes the relationship at the top level between the citizen and the government.

    The citizen can choose to amend law and change government. The catholic can obey or be damned.

    I'd say there is a fair gulf in meaning between the two things. Anyone claiming 'canon law' to be in any way relevant to a national judicial system will also immediately have to explain how sharia law for example fits into the picture. Of course it doesn't. Which is why canon law doesn't either.

    The muslim who demands that sharia law be taken notice of by everyone around him is the direct first cousin of the catholic who demands 'canon law' be taken notice of by everyone around him.

    They are both wrong because it only describes a command system between priest and believer and has no legal effect in national law nor should it.
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