Register to Comment
Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 215
Like Tree73Likes
  1. #181
    Mackers Mackers is offline
    Mackers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,391

    The name is what it was at that time. The outcome is what should be remembered, and the bravery of the men and women who crushed the Nazi scum at Stalingrad. But for those people the war would have been both longer and bloodier. For myself I thank every last one of them.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #182
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is online now
    Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,398

    Quote Originally Posted by Honecker View Post
    That's a ridiculous statement given that both the great German offensives of the war had already been defeated before significant quantities of aid had been delivered. I would argue that the main contribution of the aid was that it made Soviet offensive operations more effective ie. motorised troop transport and rapid re-supply to exploit breakthroughs in the German lines. The biggest contribution of Allied aid was the massive victory of Operation Bagration in '44 which allowed the Soviets to implement their own version of Blitzkrieg. But to say the Germans would have defeated the Soviets if it hadn't been for Land Lease is very ignorant.
    Maybe "probably" was too strong a word shall we say "possibly" instead?

    Its wrong to dismiss the value of the earlier relatively modest supply of western weaponry. Consider the state of the Red Army in December 1941 - 20,000 tanks lost. At the end of Nov they only had about 700 tanks availble for the defense of Moscow and of these only 200 were medium or heavy types. A series of British convoys arrived in Archangel during Oct 41 and these delivered a modest number of tanks but enough to make a major contribution to Soviet victory at Moscow. 30-40% of Soviet medium/heavy tanks during the Battle of Moscow were British.

    Did Russia Really Go It Alone? How Lend-Lease Helped the Soviets Defeat the Germans
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #183
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
    owedtojoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    22,749

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackers View Post
    The name is what it was at that time. The outcome is what should be remembered, and the bravery of the men and women who crushed the Nazi scum at Stalingrad. But for those people the war would have been both longer and bloodier. For myself I thank every last one of them.
    I agree,

    But the vital support that the Russians received from the Western Allies should not be discounted.

    Both dismissing the Red Army, and glorifying it as solely responsible for German defeat, is doing a disservice to the Allied war effort. For all their faults, the three major allies were much better as a team than the Axis countries (Germany, Japan, Italy).

    Hitler did not even consult Japan before the Nazi-Soviet pact which shocked his Asian allies down to their boots - I mean they were supposed to be in an anti-Communist pact, right? Hitler never once appealed to Japan to attack the Soviet Union, while the US spent much of the war persuading the USSR to attack the Japanese - which they did eventually. Probably, it was one area where Hitler's inherent racism and German pride was counter-productive.

    I would certainly give the USSR the major share of the part in defeating Hitler - and (rather cynically) remember that every Ivan killed invading Germany probably saved the life of an American GI or Tommy.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #184
    Mackers Mackers is offline
    Mackers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,391

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    I agree,

    But the vital support that the Russians received from the Western Allies should not be discounted.

    Both dismissing the Red Army, and glorifying it as solely responsible for German defeat, is doing a disservice to the Allied war effort. For all their faults, the three major allies were much better as a team than the Axis countries (Germany, Japan, Italy).

    Hitler did not even consult Japan before the Nazi-Soviet pact which shocked his Asian allies down to their boots - I mean they were supposed to be in an anti-Communist pact, right? Hitler never once appealed to Japan to attack the Soviet Union, while the US spent much of the war persuading the USSR to attack the Japanese - which they did eventually. Probably, it was one area where Hitler's inherent racism and German pride was counter-productive.

    I would certainly give the USSR the major share of the part in defeating Hitler - and (rather cynically) remember that every Ivan killed invading Germany probably saved the life of an American GI or Tommy.
    At the end of the day it was about sacrifice, and no matter where, or how, or who fought the Nazi's the story was the same brave men and women taking a stand against the evil of Hitler and his scum friends. It was a World War in every sense of the word.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #185
    Duncan Idaho Duncan Idaho is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    23

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    The 1939 pact only came about because the UK and France refused a deal offered to them by the USSR.

    Stalin's role in WWII was a crucial one, not least in his rallying people's morale by staying in Moscow at a time when he might easily have fled.

    This is a good step by the people of Volgograd remembering the single most decisive battle of the war, and what inspired Soviet success in it.
    The Brits and French might've baulked at Stalin's demands for the Baltics, half of Poland, Karelia and Bessarabia, Hitler proved more willing to do business. The two totalitarian murderers appreciated the 'business-like' approach of the other.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #186
    Ardillaun Ardillaun is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,033

    Praise should go to the Russian people for helping save the world from Nazism, and not to a hideous tyrant. A grotesque proposal.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #187
    Ardillaun Ardillaun is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,033

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    I agree,

    But the vital support that the Russians received from the Western Allies should not be discounted.
    The West helped but the Russkies did most of the fighting. Nobody else could have taken on the full force of the Wehrmacht.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #188
    Mr. Bumble Mr. Bumble is offline
    Mr. Bumble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    18,385

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Idaho View Post
    The Brits and French might've baulked at Stalin's demands for the Baltics, half of Poland, Karelia and Bessarabia, Hitler proved more willing to do business. The two totalitarian murderers appreciated the 'business-like' approach of the other.
    I wonder if the USSR didn't have such a totalitarian, strong leader as Stalin was, would it have been able to defeat the Nazis?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #189
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is online now
    owedtojoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    22,749

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Idaho View Post
    The Brits and French might've baulked at Stalin's demands for the Baltics, half of Poland, Karelia and Bessarabia, Hitler proved more willing to do business. The two totalitarian murderers appreciated the 'business-like' approach of the other.
    Some contemporary cartoons:


    In the top one:

    Hitler "The scum of the earth, I believe?"
    Stalin: "The bloody assassin of the workers, I presume?"

    How the Poles saw it: The Prussian Tribute in Moscow


    Ribbentrop kneels, Molotov smiles.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #190
    de valera's' giddy goat de valera's' giddy goat is offline
    de valera's' giddy goat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,363

    Quote Originally Posted by DeGaulle 2.0 View Post
    Such a shame that a nice city like Havana is being defaced by that flag.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment