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  1. #6031
    rainmaker rainmaker is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos the Jackal View Post
    And can the pro-Zionist posters here explain...

    thats about as genocidal as it gets
    As I thought, not even the pretence of an answer - straight to whataboutery in an attempt to sweep the issue away.

    The anti semitism is continuing right now as well:

    In October 2012, Hamas said that they were opposed to teaching about the Holocaust in Gaza Strip schools run by the UN Relief and Works Agency. The Refugee Affairs Department of Hamas said that teaching the Holocaust was a “crime against the issue of the refugees...
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  2. #6032
    pinemartin pinemartin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by rll69 View Post
    If as you say (and I am taking you at your word here) you do not support Hamas attacking civilians, does that mean that you do not support hamas at all, given that their charter calls for the death (or expulsion) of all Jews living in Israel. This would of course include civilians, women and children.

    Or are you only selectively supporting them provided they follow what you consider acceptable behaviour in furthering their goals? Where do you stand on their killing (and dragging through the streets) suspected spies? What is your view on their acceptance that "honour" killings are permissable?

    The bottom line is that the residents of Gaza elected Hamas to be their leaders, in the full knowledge that this meant that they were supporting attacks on civilians, honour killings and lynch mobs dragging bodies through the streets. If you support Hamas then this is what you support.

    If on the other hand you are a supporter of Palestinian rights and a two state solution (as many Israelis are) then you should also be condemning Hamas and their methods.

    I am a strong supporter of Israel and their right to exist and defend themselves against attack. I am also a strong supporter of the Palestinian right of determination - a right that was denied to them throughout their time under the control of Jordan and Egypt. I put Rav Ovadiah and others of his ilk in the same bracket as the Hamas leadership and supporters.

    Whilst it is all very well to say that peace can only be made between enemies, the fact is that so long as hamas is calling for the death (or expulsion) of all Jews, it is not a partner for peace negotiations.
    I would accept a two or one state solution depending on what makes sense, the Israeli government it seems are determined that any solution is delayed as long as possible while it grabs land.

    i would not be voting for them(hamas) if I livid in Gaza. I think Israel in some form has a right to exist but not at the expense of those Palestinians it is keeping in a Zoo in the West bank and Gaza. Israel also needs to address the right of return of those ethnically cleansed in 1948.

    By saying people in Gaza accept Honour killings, lynching etc because they voted for Hamas is a big step and incorrect I would think. They voted for Hamas because they believed that the party was not corrupt and would represent them better than Fatah.

    If the Israelis are locked into the position of never making agreements with Hamas about peace then there will be no peace. It is like in the North if the UK government refused to deal with SF there would be still an ongoing conflict. I am old enough to remember the old Israeli propaganda about a leopard never changing its spots in relation to Fatah but they dealt with them, someday they will deal with Hamas.
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  3. #6033
    XRoot XRoot is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemartin View Post
    It is like in the North if the UK government refused to deal with SF there would be still an ongoing conflict. I am old enough to remember the old Israeli propaganda about a leopard never changing its spots in relation to Fatah but they dealt with them, someday they will deal with Hamas.
    SF had to accept some basic principles before anyone would engage with them during the NI peace process, right?

    Hamas has a similar option available. Drop their commitment to violence and recognize Israel.
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  4. #6034
    ffc ffc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by XRoot View Post
    SF had to accept some basic principles before anyone would engage with them during the NI peace process, right?

    Hamas has a similar option available. Drop their commitment to violence and recognize Israel.
    Will Israel recognise Palestine, can Israel even recognise itself? Where exactly are it's borders?
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  5. #6035
    pinemartin pinemartin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by XRoot View Post
    SF had to accept some basic principles before anyone would engage with them during the NI peace process, right?

    Hamas has a similar option available. Drop their commitment to violence and recognize Israel.
    They have defaco recognised Israel by accepting the 1967 borders. I believe that when there is a government in Israel committed to peace along the 1967 borders then Hamas will be ready to engage. The problem is not Hamas at the moment it is the Israelis lack of commitment to talking peace and their insistence that settlements and east Jerusalem should be under the control of Israel.
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  6. #6036
    yanshuf yanshuf is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemartin View Post
    I would accept a two or one state solution depending on what makes sense, the Israeli government it seems are determined that any solution is delayed as long as possible while it grabs land.

    i would not be voting for them(hamas) if I livid in Gaza. I think Israel in some form has a right to exist but not at the expense of those Palestinians it is keeping in a Zoo in the West bank and Gaza. Israel also needs to address the right of return of those ethnically cleansed in 1948.

    By saying people in Gaza accept Honour killings, lynching etc because they voted for Hamas is a big step and incorrect I would think. They voted for Hamas because they believed that the party was not corrupt and would represent them better than Fatah.

    If the Israelis are locked into the position of never making agreements with Hamas about peace then there will be no peace. It is like in the North if the UK government refused to deal with SF there would be still an ongoing conflict. I am old enough to remember the old Israeli propaganda about a leopard never changing its spots in relation to Fatah but they dealt with them, someday they will deal with Hamas.

    No Arabs were ethnically cleansed in 1948. They brought their own catastrophy on themselves. Wwhen one nation (the Arabs) makes a genocidal attempt against another nation (the Jews) they can not expect the other nation to sit quietly, until this genocide is finished.

    Simple logic.
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  7. #6037
    kalipa kalipa is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by XRoot View Post
    SF had to accept some basic principles before anyone would engage with them during the NI peace process, right?

    Hamas has a similar option available. Drop their commitment to violence and recognize Israel.
    "I accept a Palestinian state according [to] the 1967 borders, with Jerusalem as the capital, with the right to return," the Hamas leader told Christine Amanpour in Cairo.

    Pushed about his party's refusal to recognize Israel, Mashaal said such a declaration could only be made once a Palestinian state has been created.
    "After this state is established, it decides its standing toward Israel," the Hamas leader said.


    Asked if Hamas is willing to renounce violence, he said, "We are ready to resort to a peaceful way, purely peaceful way without blood or weapons."
    Such a move, however, would be conditional on the attainment of Palestinian national demands, namely, "the elimination of occupation and the (creation of a) Palestinian state and ending the occupation and the wall."
    As such, Mashaal also denied Hamas took part in the terrorist bombing of a public bus in Tel Aviv on Wednesday.


    Mashaal: I accept a Palestinian state on '... JPost - Middle East
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  8. #6038
    yanshuf yanshuf is offline

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    Woman singlehandedly drives terrorist away

    Woman singlehandedly drives terrorist away - Israel News, Ynetnews

    A terrorist who infiltrated Israel from Gaza a few days ago, entered a family home in Sdei Avraham. The mother of the family feared it would end like the Fogel family, so she faught the terrorist, who slit her face.



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  9. #6039
    Ramon Mercadar Ramon Mercadar is offline
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    Targeting civilians is always wrong no matter which side does it.
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  10. #6040
    Dylan2010 Dylan2010 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramon Mercadar View Post
    Targeting civilians is always wrong no matter which side does it.
    no..no...conventional wisdom on this site says its ok if its the bad guys
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