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  1. #341
    Henry Thomas Henry Thomas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadaist View Post
    This is my point. It is not a football match.




    But supporting the cause of anti-apartheid is rational. There is nothing irrational about wanting to do away with apartheid. Even some white South Africans were in favour of the anti-apartheid cause. Absolute support for the Palestinian's or Israel is irrational.

    Who said it was a football match?

    Who said the support was absolute?
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  2. #342
    Dadaist Dadaist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Thomas View Post
    Who said the support was absolute?
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Thomas View Post
    Some people take one side or the other.
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  3. #343
    The System Works The System Works is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by mary_queen_of_the_gael View Post


    P87 Palestine coin 1 Mil 1927 | eBay



    Palestine predates invasion it seems.
    This has to be the one of the dumbest arguments I've seen on P.ie. You are aware that the Aleph and Yud in the Hebrew script stands for 'Eretz Yisrael', right? That term well predates 'Palestine'.
    Last edited by The System Works; 17th October 2012 at 09:58 AM.
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  4. #344
    timhorgan timhorgan is offline

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    Here are the brutal facts of the Zionist Terrorist occupation:-

    Key Facts | ICAHD


    Extract:


    8. Are Israeli settlements legal under international law?

    No. Under Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel is prohibited from establishing settlements: “The Occupying Power shall not transfer parts of its own civilian population into territories it occupies.”

    9. What other international laws does the Israeli Occupation violate?
    Virtually all of Israel’s occupation of Palestinian lands violates human rights conventions – and especially the Fourth Geneva Convention that forbids an occupying power from making its presence a permanent one. Thus:

    Articles 50 and 51 of the “Protocols Additional to the 1949 Geneva Convention” emphasize the protection of civilians in time of war. "The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians…. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations."
    Article 3 prohibits "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment," a routine element of Palestinian life under Israel's occupation.
    Article 32 forbids assassinations, and any brutalization of the civilian population, including their treatment at checkpoints and in "security searches."
    Article 33 prohibiting pillage would obtain to Israel’s extensive use of West Bank and Gazan water resources, especially as they are denied the local population. It also prohibits the use of collective punishment, as represented by the imposition of closure, curfew, house demolitions and many other routine actions of the Occupation Authorities.
    Article 39 stipulates: “Protected persons [residents of occupied lands] who, as a result of the war, have lost their gainful employment, shall be granted the opportunity to find paid employment.” It thereby prohibits the imposition a permanent “closure” on the Occupied Territories, such as Israel has done since 1993.
    Article 64 forbids changes in the local legal system that, among other things, alienate the local population from its land and property, as Israel has done through massive land expropriations.
    Article 146 holds accountable individuals who have committed “grave breaches” of the Convention. According to Article 147, this includes many acts routinely practiced under the Occupation, such as willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury, unlawful deportation, taking of hostages, extensive destruction, and appropriation of property. Israeli courts have thus far failed to charge or prosecute Israeli officials, military personnel or police who have committed such acts.
    The PLO also bears a measure of responsibility for the violations of its own people's rights under the Fourth Geneva Convention. According to Article 8, the PLO had no right in the Oslo Agreements to abrogate their rights and suspend the applicability of the Convention, since “Protected persons may in no circumstances renounce in part or in entirety the rights secured to them by the present Convention.” Had international humanitarian law been the basis of the Oslo peace process rather than power-negotiations, the Occupation would have ended and the conditions for a just peace would have been established, since virtually every element of Israel’s occupation violates a provision of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
    Last edited by timhorgan; 17th October 2012 at 10:07 AM.
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  5. #345
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by timhorgan View Post
    Here are the brutal facts of the Zionist Terrorist occupation:-

    Key Facts | ICAHD
    From the link ..........
    All the OPT comprises only 22% of historic Palestine between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. The fragmentation of the Palestinian territories began in the Oslo “peace process,” when in the Oslo II agreement of 1995 the West Bank was divided into Areas A, B and C. Today the Palestinian Authority controls Area A (18% of the West Bank, though in fact Israel invades at will) and Area B (another 22% of the West Bank, although Israel controls the security and patrols the territory). Area C, 60 of the West Bank (where the settlements are), is under full Israeli control. East Jerusalem, where 240,000 Palestinian live and which the international community considers occupied territory, has been formally annexed by Israel and, from Israel’s perspective, is not part of the occupied territories. The PA is forbidden to have any presence in East Jerusalem. Gaza, only 6.5% of the OPT, is under PA/Hamas control. Under the Oslo agreements Gaza is considered an integral unit of the OPT and should be treated as one in the same as the West Bank. In fact, Israel has besieged and isolated it completely in the late 1980s.

    All in all, then, the Palestinian sort of control about 40% of the OPT and thus only 10% of historic Palestine.
    All in all this seems a selective loony left view of the situation. They have admitted as much by saying that they pitch to outside "civil society" as presumably the Israelis themselves see through the BS
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  6. #346
    The System Works The System Works is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    From the link ..........


    All in all this seems a selective loony left view of the situation. They have admitted as much by saying that they pitch to outside "civil society" as presumably the Israelis themselves see through the BS
    They also never explain what 'historic Palestine' actually is. Before 1922, Jordan was part of the Mandate of Palestine. This means Arabs actually run about 80% of 'historic Palestine'. They appear to define 'historic Palestine' as a set of borders drawn by Europeans that existed for about two decades, from 1922 to 1947.

    But if there's one thing Islamists/leftists don't do, its logic.
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  7. #347
    yanshuf yanshuf is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by timhorgan View Post
    Here are the brutal facts of the Zionist Terrorist occupation:-

    Key Facts | ICAHD


    Extract:


    8. Are Israeli settlements legal under international law?




    9. What other international laws does the Israeli Occupation violate?
    You shouldn't take your "facts" from a radical leftist organisation.

    Israel doesn't violate the Geneva Convention, the areas of Judea, Samaria and Gaza are part of the desiganted Jewish homeland according to the Mandate resolution of the League of Nations. This all convention nonsense is part of the anti-israeli stance that the radicals regurgitate in order to delegitimise the fully legitimate settlements.
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  8. #348
    former wesleyan former wesleyan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by timhorgan View Post
    Here are the brutal facts of the Zionist Terrorist occupation:-




    Here's a brutal fact for you Tim..you to be an ex-military man and all. The brutal fact is that the Israelis are the best friends that the Palestinians have. This area of the Middle East is about more than hanging around M & S with a bullhorn blathering about boycotts.

    In one war with Syria more tanks were deployed than since the Battle of Kursk in WWII. If the Israelis had lost that war Israel and the Palestinians would have been immediately subsumed in Syria, with Egypt demanding her fair share from the sidelines. No Arab country has promised anything to the Palestinians, with the exception of the Saudis - who couldn't fight flies off a rice pudding- who won't be attacking Israel any time soon.

    It's either the Palestinians do a deal with the Israelis or nothing.
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  9. #349
    Dadaist Dadaist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The System Works View Post
    They also never explain what 'historic Palestine' actually is. Before 1922, Jordan was part of the Mandate of Palestine. This means Arabs actually run about 80% of 'historic Palestine'. They appear to define 'historic Palestine' as a set of borders drawn by Europeans that existed for about two decades, from 1922 to 1947.

    But if there's one thing Islamists/leftists don't do, its logic.
    Simple yes or no question: Have Palestinian's been living in this area for centuries? Yes or No?
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  10. #350
    yanshuf yanshuf is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadaist View Post
    Simple yes or no question: Have Palestinian's been living in this area for centuries? Yes or No?
    It's not that simple as there were no Palestinians back then. And since most of the "Palestinian" refugees of 1948 originate from Arabs who came to the land after the Jews had established the right economic circumstances.
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