Why is only one side of this story being told?
Are all the people of Darfur on the side of the Rebels or just some?
Have all the atrocities being committed by the Jangaweed or have all the Rebel groups a clean pair of hands?
Why are the Western nations so interested in this arid piece of God's Earth?
Please please don't tell us there is Oil out there!!!!
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
Earl:
You got it!
No, I don't want to turn around the topic, but it is a perfectly reasonable question to ask why some people can be oppressed and brutalized with the connivance of the UN (or more specifically the Security Council powers), while the plight of others who are (or may be) oppressed and brutalized is put forward as a stain on our moral conscience.
We've seen it before, e.g in the case of Kosovo. Kosovo suffering bad, suffering of others, let's say in the Kurdish areas of Turkey, is OK.
How are we to chose which suffering people deserve UN intervention and which deserve the bomb and the bullet?
Maybe you can help us on this, distinguished Earl!
Sending UN troops will be of some benefit, but please don't let it be the pityful force that went to Bosnia. A Rapid Reaction Force (Force being the operative word) is what should have been sent to Darfur a long time ago.
There are Men, there are Women and there are Politicians. God save old Ireland
eirenua:
"Sending UN troops will be of some benefit, but please don't let it be the pityful force that went to Bosnia. A Rapid Reaction Force (Force being the operative word) is what should have been sent to Darfur a long time ago. @
Let me get this straight. You think the UN should send "Force" to all wars? Or just to civil wars? Or just to some civil wars?
Any hope you could explain to me how we should pick which civil wars to get involved in?
In this case, why we should take sides in a civil war (insurrection, whatever you want to call it) in a far-off country of which I (and you) know little? How about Western Sahara? Should we back the Moroccans or the Polisario? Or Colombia? Government or FARC? Why doesn't the UN send troops to Colombia?
Why shoudn't I back the government rather than the rebels?
Harvey - first off in DARFUR hundreds of thousands of innocent people are being attacked, killed, raped, brutalised by either the Sudanese government or the people that government calsl rebels - the innocent people in DARFUR are getting it from both 'sides' in that conflict - a conflict which to be frank no one understands what 'they' are in conflict about - the reasons don't matter when so many people have died and continue to be subjected to what is going on in DARFUR.
Now I am not denying that Israel has a lot to answer for in the Gaza and West Bank however there is no comparison between the WB/G and DARFUR.
First off on a factual basis there is no such place as Palestine. The WB and G were part of Jordan and Syria. The remaining 'refugee' camps are also located in Jordan and Syria and there is nothing to stop those governments giving the people who live their official status so they can get passports and pay tax and live properly. It won't solve the middle east issues but at least it would allow those living their to lead more normal lives.
Also in pure money terms even with restrictions there is enough money given to the PLA to pay for teachers and hospital and civil servants but it is so corrupt that the moeny is wasted.
That is not the fault of Israel - just as it is not the UK's fault Zimbabwe is in the mess it is in not matter what the arguments are about colonialsim.
Of course any future peace settlement with Israel/Palestine is going to mean border changes etc but that is separate to why Palestinian people now live as they do. Also if you check Israeli media - Israel being the only country in that region with a free media and which upholds human rights - you'll find Israel has never denied such changes will happen but all it has asked is that A) Palestine accepts the righto f Israel to exist and B) for it to exist in peace.
Therefore it seems reasonable that if Palestinians gave that committment - which does not require any committment to accept the borders as they are now - it would mean Israel would not need to check Palestinians so much and some trust that Palestinians are going to Israel to work and not set off bombs will grow.
But harvey, we only have 11,000 Chinese citizens in the entire country!Originally Posted by harvey
We know this from the comprehensive census carried out only last year. If they had got it so wrong, heads would have rolled, people would have resigned with embarrassment at their own incompetence, amidst the outrage voiced by our elected representatives.
We would have had to have another census under new management.
Wouldn't we?
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
TT - I think you are confused - you are on a site in Ireland - people don't resign or take responsibility in Ireland - you are confusing Ireland with normal countries.
The UN should, sorry must get involved where unarmed innocent farmers are being driven from their homes,their families raped, & murdered. these people must be given a safe haven and if anyone wants to have a go at them they should get the bollox knocked out of them. Does that answer your question? What solution would you put forward or would you stand back and let innocent people die.
There are Men, there are Women and there are Politicians. God save old Ireland
Drilling for oil in Somalia is hardly 'without risk'. China has an interest in stability- or at least an order structured to suit them. That makes them typical, not atypical, of major foreign actors in the region. France stalled progress on Rawanda simply because the Hutu spoke French and the Tutsi spoke English for goodness sake. It's not that I like what the Chinese do- though I think they have actually done a lot of good for Africa by driving up commodity prices (far, far more useful than Fair Trade anyway). It's just that I don't think China are exceptional in their actions, criticism is due across the board. I fear needling China too much will let everyone else off the hook.
My understanding of Africa is limited enough, and I have never been there. Do you know, might you have been talking to a certain type of people, or is the concern ubiquitous? It is my understanding that foreign association has a lot to do with religion: i.e. Christians tend to look westwards and Muslims tend to look eastwards with each considering the other a threat.Indeed, I spent a month in East Africa last year. The levels of Chinese activity are becoming very worrying for many of the citizens over there. Don't feel like rehashing it all up again so you can go searching way back in my previous posts if you are really bothered
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true.
[quote=St Disibod]
My understanding of Africa is limited enough, and I have never been there. Do you know, might you have been talking to a certain type of people, or is the concern ubiquitous? It is my understanding that foreign association has a lot to do with religion: i.e. Christians tend to look westwards and Muslims tend to look eastwards with each considering the other a threat.[/quote:nkb52kee]Indeed, I spent a month in East Africa last year. The levels of Chinese activity are becoming very worrying for many of the citizens over there. Don't feel like rehashing it all up again so you can go searching way back in my previous posts if you are really bothered
The Safari tour guide, the Rwandan ranger in the Parc des Volcans and the nice shopkeeper who I talked to in a bar on a campsite all shared similar sentiments. Not that it is a particularly worked out random and representative dataset, but it did give me a feeling that they weren't particularly loving towards them. We were there as tourists only, doing "responsible tourism" so there would not have been a purposeful skew as to who we spoke. That said, the regions we were in were not the Muslims strongholds. On the otherhand, we saw more Chinese foremen and project leaders in Rwanda than anywhere else and Rwanda has less than 5% Muslims.
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