Christian Pastor sentenced to death for converting from Islam

[Kevin Parlon]

I see many normal and practical beliefs in Islam. It's also widely known that things such as putting death to infidels aren't even in the Koran.

Non-Abrahamic religions are to convert or die. "People of the book" are offered conversion, dhimmitude or death. Suggest you read a bit more before making pronouncements. "Islam" is also the Hadiths. So whether any particular practice or law falls in one set of scripture or another is extraneous when talking about what Islam does or does not mandate.

Calling Jihads was just self-defence to Crusades.

Islam was spread by Jihad and to call Jihad a purely defensive phenomenon is demonstrably incorrect.

We shouldn't really be talking about any of this though. We should be talking about a theocratic totalitarian state wanting to kill someone for thought-crime.

[former wesleyan]

If it wasn't for Islam we wouldn't have had ours either. I wouldn't expect you to know that the knowledge of the ancient Greeks and Romans was lost to us Europeans until we encountered Islam and the crusades.

They invented the idea of the number zero. Ask a mathimatician just how important that was.

Or alternatively have a look for yourself instead of making basless comments, then again it is you.

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hindus came up with the zero. Muslims were eager to learn which meant that they copied and spread existing ideas, but they came up with precious few.

[Mercurial]

Any links for actual executions for adultery, which appears to require the defendant to confess and the production of four witnesses and is then usually only sentenced if the adultery lead to murder. Even so iran does not appear to be any more primitive in it's use of executions than china or america the backsides of whom we are more than happy to kiss and lick with deferential aplomb.

It looks like this woman will be the next: Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See here, also: Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SAT]

There is huge inconsistency in the postings of some members here. On this thread there are several people condemning Islam as a barbaric religion which should not be tolerated (sic), and yet on other threads such as Libya and Syria they are baying for the SECULAR leaders to be overthrown so Islamic fundamentalists can turn the states into religious theocracies

Evidently they haven't thought their opinions through very clearly. Either that or they just like to see Muslim countries at war??

[SAT]

Hindus came up with the zero. Muslims were eager to learn which meant that they copied and spread existing ideas, but they came up with precious few.

I see you subscribe to the motto, 'never let facts stand in the way of bigotry'

Exhibition | 1001 Inventions

Exhibition | 1001 Inventions

Oh, and fyi Muslims came up with algebra

The greatest scientific contribution Muslims made to the world is the creation of mathematical science. Algebra, geometry, algorithm and arithmetic are at the heart of every scientific and social aspect of life.

There is hardly a single device, business entity, industry, architecture built without the Arabic numerals, the decimal point, the sign and cosine, the ruler and the compass, all of which are Islamic inventions.

Abulwafaa was the first person to demonistrate the sine theorom for spherical triangle: sin (a+b) = sin a cos b - cos a sin b. The word 'sine' is the exact translation of the arabic word Jayb.

Muhammad Ibn Musa Al-Khowarizmi, the father of algebra, was a mathematician and astronomer. He was summoned to Baghdad by Al-Mamun and appointed court astronomer.

The first book on algebra was written by al Khawarzmi, Kitab al Mukhtasir fi Hisab al Jabr wa 'l-muqabalah' The book of Summary Concerning the Process of Calculating Compulsion and Equatin. Al jaber is the restoration and amplification of something incomplete, and Muqabalah is the balancing of the two sides of an equation.

[Mr Aphorisms]

hold on . where exactly are people spreading fear of Islam ? If you're telling the truth about something thats happening how the hell is that spreading fear of Islam ??

Its none of our business another human being is being put to death for no legitimate reason ??? cop on please.

Its quite disturbing that we will allow Muslims to stand outside the GPO and recruit christians and others to Islam but many of their countries wont reciprocate the gesture .

it brings to mind the story of a group of christians a few years ago who had their throats cut in Turkey for handing out Bibles.

I've talked to them, for about 2 hours one night.

They're 9/11 truthers, anti-evolution and believe that the Taliban - despite not allowing children to go to school - were proper Muslims. Other than that they were sound. Many of them are doctors.

Regarding the OP, yeah, it's terrible. But he doesn't honestly really care. If he did, he'd be at America all day for supporting the Saudis, a much more draconian Islamic state.

[Mr Aphorisms]

Non-Abrahamic religions are to convert or die. "People of the book" are offered conversion, dhimmitude or death. Suggest you read a bit more before making pronouncements. "Islam" is also the Hadiths. So whether any particular practice or law falls in one set of scripture or another is extraneous when talking about what Islam does or does not mandate.



Islam was spread by Jihad and to call Jihad a purely defensive phenomenon is demonstrably incorrect.

We shouldn't really be talking about any of this though. We should be talking about a theocratic totalitarian state wanting to kill someone for thought-crime.

Agreed, Kevin. How about America and Britain stop overthrowing secular governments in the middle east and installing draconian Islamic dictators? And how about they stop supporting states such as Saudi Arabia who are more fundamentalist then Bin Laden was?

[Kevin Parlon]

Agreed, Kevin. How about America and Britain stop overthrowing secular governments in the middle east and installing draconian Islamic dictators? And how about they stop supporting states such as Saudi Arabia who are more fundamentalist then Bin Laden was?

1. This thread isn't about that.
2. America and Britain haven't overthrown anyone since Hussein. Helped things along where movements began to overthrow dictatorships? Sometimes.
3. They haven't installed anyone either. Where new governments have been formed, they've been democratically elected.
4. The west's position on Saudi is an ugly and hypocritical necessity. Real life is like that sometimes.

Your deliberate use of the terms "overthrow" and "install" where they clearly do not apply either technically or substantially show you still are putting too much emotion into your analysis IMO.

[Mr Aphorisms]

1. This thread isn't about that.
2. America and Britain haven't overthrown anyone since Hussein. Helped things along where movements began to overthrow dictatorships? Sometimes.
3. They haven't installed anyone either. Where new governments have been formed, they've been democratically elected.
4. The west's position on Saudi is an ugly and hypocritical necessity. Real life is like that sometimes.

Your deliberate use of the terms "overthrow" and "install" where they clearly do not apply either technically or substantially show you still are putting too much emotion into your analysis IMO.

The OP is fixated about Iran. It is clear what the OP's intention is in bringing this up. But I agreed with what you said. We should be talking about these things, but we should be talking about them "everywhere." The sad reality is that we don't and America gets off the hook.

1. This thread isn't about that.

The OP's intentions are, as I said, clear. His game is going after Iran, nothing more. He's not interested in the Islamic communists that America supported and supports, who, in some cases, boil people alive.

2. America and Britain haven't overthrown anyone since Hussein. Helped things along where movements began to overthrow dictatorships? Sometimes.

And the whole world prays that it stays like that.

3. They haven't installed anyone either. Where new governments have been formed, they've been democratically elected.

Well, I take it you're talking about the 21st Century, no need to go over all of the democratically elected governments they've helped overthrow.

4. The west's position on Saudi is an ugly and hypocritical necessity. Real life is like that sometimes.

I agree. I just don't agree in America saying we've been attacked by people who hate our freedom, when it has nothing at all to do with that.

But anyway, we are in agreement, Kevin regarding this. In fact, we're in agreement about nearly everything regarding the Muslim world. You've already spoken about how they're doing their best in Afghanistan to end democracy. Look at the results of the elections in Egypt and other Arab Spring countries. They want laws by God, not man. Look at my post above about the Muslims outside the GPO. I think I mentioned them to you before, but forget you're down under and probably have no recollection of them. But I found them very easy to talk to and we had a good debate. But I was very disturbed when they said that the Taliban were very good, except in their treatment of women going to school.

Where we disagree is in America getting involved in these countries to protect Israel and Oil. I understand that the nuts always end up taking power, but we should just let them and trade with them and not worry about attacks from Islamic states. As Bin Laden said, Muslims don't drink oil or shower in it, we just want to sell it at a reasonable market price.

There is in England a deep problem with Wahhabi and fanatical Takfiri Muslims who do really hate freedom and our way of life. I'm not one of these who thinks that Muslims are all oppressed people, far from it. But threads like this annoy me as there is a clear agenda behind them as I guarantee that this poster doesn't care about Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, etc.

[Kevin Parlon]

Where we disagree is ...

Out of respect for the rules of the house I'll not respond as you're going too far off topic and I think this particular topic has been shamefully ignored by the media. I'll happily debate this with you should you care to start a thread on it. You could call it "Islamist violence in the 21st century. America's fault or not?" Lay out your stall and I'll try to poke holes in it. I still maintain you're seeing everything through a prism of unnuanced and inflexible anti-americanism.