Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: India tells Britain: We don't want your aid!

  1. #11
    Politics.ie Regular eskrimador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    7,825

    Quote Originally Posted by NiceView View Post
    India's problem is how to grow in the right way and minimize corruption. At least it doesn't have to risk a possible rewrite its political system as China does down the line.

    The article indicates that British aid is part of a process to convince the Indians to buy British arms. The government arms industry in India is controlled by a few ex-servicemen (ie. corrupt ex soldiers mostly) in cahoots with politicians and yes they do naughty deals. One of my erstwhile pals was caught trying to flog a missile to the cops, and he was plenty rich already. And he'd been to all the right schools abroad, and people who didn't know his past (which made this look like a robin Hood moment) swore he was a gentleman. Probably because he bought them drinks.

    Anti-corruption in India, however, is catching on more and more, and Indians are very vocal about it, and it's a big part of broadcast and movie culture, an open sore. Indians abroad that are returning are not about to accept the culture that their families had to put up with post Independence when the economy was handed over to an elite to develop and a bureacracy to leech. In another decade the middle class in India will be gigantic (already almost as big as Europe in population on Indian terms, though earning less) and they have most to lose through corruption and least to gain. Whereas poor people can use a corrupt system, and rich people can benefit from it, a massive middle class means that the poor have to educate themselves and the rich cannot control them. And educate themselves they will! As someone put it to me recently, while your average European is well aware of whom the local football star is, in India, everyone knows who the local celebrity teacher is. Celebrity teacher. Absorb that. Something we don't have in Ireland because we don't worship the way the Indians do.

    Education, in a land and culture defined by religion, is a religion itself. Tamil or Gujerati, Hindu, Singh or Muslim, every Indian aspires for an education equally and fervently.

    And they owe a lot of that to the Brits, in a strange way. In fairness, while the Irish may have been crap at using the Empire for anything, the Indians got a taste for secular University through scholarships to England and while they may despise the British charity they love the British education system. Shame we Irish never moved with the times when the Brits were around. When I was in school, I heard about the brave hedge school teachers that taught you Greek up to the age of 12. For some reason, nobody lauds the Irish engineers and scientists who were educated in the UK and who changed the world. There were, in fact, many of them.

    In India, before during and after their Independence, it has been a mark of distinction to receive a scholarship to Cambridge. Yet, in Ireland, you'd keep your mouth shut about it if you knew what was good for you.

    Go India!

    PS yes, I know there is crushing poverty there, poverty crushes the rights of women and children and I can tell you I hate spending time there because of that, but I tip my hat to the indomitable Indian spirit that won't be poor forever.
    You wouldn't be mixing up India with Disneyland, would ya?

  2. #12
    Politics.ie Regular darkhorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,464

    Fair play to India for speaking the truth
    If they said the same to Ireland, it could save us a lot of money
    And likewise with a lot of other countries we give money to

  3. #13
    Politics.ie Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    426

    Quote Originally Posted by eskrimador View Post
    You wouldn't be mixing up India with Disneyland, would ya?
    nah, just being positive

    Though you gotta admit, when you see billboards devoted to the kids who achieved top marks in regional exams you know yo ain't in Kansas no mo', Dawthy.

    Oh my GAWRT...

  4. #14
    Politics.ie Regular statsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    10,131

    Quote Originally Posted by eskrimador View Post
    Decades?

    I was trying not to sound too pessimistic.
    eskrimador likes this.
    Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain

  5. #15
    Politics.ie Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zurich
    Posts
    2,239

    Good post Niceview, agree with your remarks on the indomitable Indian spirit, and interesting to read about your associate in the arms industry.
    Ich mag Steine!

  6. #16
    Politics.ie Regular
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    6,137

    though the title said Inda!

    devo'd

  7. #17
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6,652

    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    This is an indication of how the world is changing as the West undergoes its most savage recession in decades.





    India tells Britain: We don't want your aid - Telegraph
    This is an indication of the true nature of "charity" or "aid"

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    Third Assessment Report: “long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.

  8. #18
    Politics.ie Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    426

    Quote Originally Posted by owenfeehan View Post
    Good post Niceview, agree with your remarks on the indomitable Indian spirit, and interesting to read about your associate in the arms industry.
    Profits from the illicit deals were ploughed into property. Safe as houses.... Or hotels and villas in this case.

    He was as well connected as they could possibly come, and as a fish there were few as big in his arena. But he'd been far too naughty in many ways beyond this case. Or far too successful..... these are the sort of people who want ten per cent of the price of a warship. Handy to have focus on him for a while, as he'll fight and be well backed up, and that'll reduce the heat on more dodgy people. Comes with the territory.

    On the other hand, there were people in the same social group who worked hard, gave back to society and never saw a reason to be corrupt. Just too much damn opportunity out there.

    Maybe that's why I'm bullish at the moment, I'm trying to get a significant Indian to sign on a dotted line for something really nice. Plus, I have had plenty of Indian employees and customers (and neighbours, but only one girlfriend) that make me feel half-dead in comparison to their get up and go. Have to admit, before I properly mixed it up in Asia I had a negative view of Indians due to a few poor experiences, but I'm well bullish these days. And I owe them as a nation quite a lot from a personal prosperity point of view.

    I just wish they wouldn't blithely climb over the railing and cross the motorway in from the airport in a multigenerational family group jabbering to each other.

  9. #19
    Politics.ie Regular Grumpy Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,823

    When you look behind the headlines at this, it looks more and more like a cute hoor stroke by HMG that has backfired and failed to deliver what British ministers and mandarins wanted - a very big and very lucrative arms deal worth up to €20billion. And now UK ministers are throwing a hissy fit in the press.

    From the outset, it has been clear that India neither wanted nor needed UK govt aid but it was something pushed by the British. HMG saw it as an opportunity to gain leverage and influence with Indian ministers at a time when BAE Systems was a front-runner for a massive contract for 126 fighter aircraft and associated weapons, equipment, spares, supoort and training - alongside the French, Russians and Americans.

    Last summer, the Russian and US aircraft were rejected and it became a straight dogfight between the British-led Eurofighter Typhoon and the French Dassault Rafale, with the Brits believing they had the deal sewn up. Last week, word came out of India that the Rafale had won the contest and the French had been selected as prime bidder. Contract negotiations are due to begin within weeks with the view to signing a final contract by late March or early April - just in time to give Sarkozy a nice boost ahead of the French election cos he's cute-hooring here just as much as Cameron.

    Cue outrage in the UK press at this 'snub' by the 'ungrateful' Indians. The Daily Mail in particular has led the charge, with the Express, Telgraph and Sun not too far behind. These details about the UK aid to India and Indian ministers' views on it did not make it into the papers by accident. Smacks of very sour grapes to me.

    France swoops to rob UK of £13bn Indian jet contract | Mail Online

    Cameron opens fire on France's 'Asda option' jet as he vows to do everything he can to persuade India to order British warplane | Mail Online

    British foreign aid: India tells Britain 'we don't need the peanuts you offer us' | Mail Online

    British aid may be 'a peanut' to India, but not to us | Mail Online

    Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Aid row as India snubs UK and gives France a £7bn jet

    Turbulence ahead with Indian jet deal - Telegraph

    Brit jobs hit by French jets deal | The Sun |News

    However, I would add a little caveat here - this ain't over til the contract is signed and sealed. And the French have a history of 'winning' these big arms deals only for them to go to the Brits, Americans or Russians at the last minute due to outrageous French demands and pricing structures during the detail contract negotiations. And big buyers have a history of using negotiations with the French to secure better terms from others on the weapons they really want to buy - the Saudis, UAE and Morocco all did that in recent years and bought British and American after stringing the French and Sarko along. Brazil is doing the same at present and it really wouldn't shock me if the Indians were at the same and looking for a better deal from the UK as the Typhoon is a superior aircraft to the Rafale in many respects.

    So don't be surprised to see headlines in UK papers in a few months time about how British 'influence' - no doubt linked to aid and Dave's charm and persuasion - secures a rethink by India which then hands this deal to the UK for the Typhoon and Sarko is jilted at the altar yet again, only this time it will be smack in the middle of the election campaign and will damage his re-election hopes. Although, the headlines in the UK papers this week and comments from UK politicians, including Cameron, are not likely to help Brirain's case with the Indians.
    NiceView likes this.

  10. #20
    Politics.ie Regular Grumpy Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,823

    Here's a view from India by Delhi-based journalist and commentator, Rahul Bedi, in today's Daily Mail.

    No, my country doesn't need British aid. It's patronising, stifling and just enriches a corrupt elite | Mail Online

    In recent years, Britain has been giving no less than £280 million to India annually — the money accompanied by boasts about how the warm-hearted London Government is helping to relieve poverty in the sub-continent.

    Yet, far from welcoming this largesse, the Indian nation is increasingly exasperated at being treated as a needy beneficiary. As the Indian finance minister Pranab Mukherjee said recently, ‘We do not require the aid. It is peanuts in our total development spending.’

    Indeed, there are reports that the Indian Government has become so contemptuous of Britain’s contribution that they accept it merely to avoid causing the Coalition embarrassment.

    That just shows the utter absurdity of Britain’s financial support to India.

    The programme is unnecessary, patronising and counter-productive. It smacks of an outdated, colonialist mindset rather than modern economic reality.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12