Tony Blair signed secret deal to give joint sovereignty on Gibraltar to Spain

[pippakin]

I thought it was common knowledge that Bliar wanted to get rid of Gibraltar. Didn't Gibraltars PM call a referendum in which the entire adult (voting) population of the island, all thirty odd thousand, voted to remain British.

[blokesbloke]

Don't say that in front of Cruimh.

Why not? If it's the truth and how he feels, then he should say it in front of Cruimh. There's never going to be a resolution to the question of Northern Ireland if people don't start being honest about what they really want, in front of absolutely everybody.

"I think this, but I won't say it in front of the Unionists" isn't going to work any better than a Unionist displaying the same attitude towards Republicans - which many probably do.

If you're a Unionist who thinks it's inevitable Ireland will unify one day and so wants to discuss terms now, say so.

If you're a Republican in the South who would technically like Ireland to be united as one country but thinks that in reality it would bring more trouble to the rest of Ireland that it's worth, say so.

The Republicans in the North don't want people down South saying they want them back but panicking at the last minute when it looks like it's actually going to happen and saying they've changed their minds, I assume!

[LamportsEdge]

I thought it was common knowledge that Bliar wanted to get rid of Gibraltar. Didn't Gibraltars PM call a referendum in which the entire adult (voting) population of the island, all thirty odd thousand, voted to remain British.

Did they run the referendum again or is that just an Irish thing? "I'm a pretty straight kinda guy." (T Blair)

[blokesbloke]

Tony Blair didn't give a flying fook about Britain, Gibraltar or anywhere else. He existed to serve himself, his grasping fishwife of a spouse and, for some reason, George W Bush, in that order.

He was a pretty straight kinda arsehole.

To think I voted Labour in 1997! In my defence I was very young, very idealistic, very stupid and the Tories weren't much better.

I walked miles with Labour election leaflets in the oddly hot weather we had prior to election day in 1997. Oh well. I believed in it at the time, and at least I was doing what I thought was right.

[Houyhnhnm]

Anyone surprised that the deal was for joint sovereignty but the Mail and Telegraph report that Blair was planning to 'give' Gibraltar to Spain? Joint sovereignty is still the most sensible way forward for the peninsula which is nothing more than a historical curiosity.

[olli rehn]

Fair play to the Gibraltarians- they clearly told the world to whom they want to belong.
Some people in the SF corner should take note about that when it comes to the North....

[LamportsEdge]

Erm- there is a power sharing system in place in Northern Ireland? However, your recognition of Northern Ireland as comparable to Gibraltar in terms of politics is noted and appreciated.

[edifice.]

B.liar, not Westminster. Worst PM we ever had IMO.

He wasn't the only PM speaking out both sides of his mouth. It's a Westminster thing alright.............Finchley and all that.

[blokesbloke]

Erm- there is a power sharing system in place in Northern Ireland? However, your recognition of Northern Ireland as comparable to Gibraltar in terms of politics is noted and appreciated.

There is indeed, but as part of that power-sharing agreement, who is currently the sovereign "owner" of Northern Ireland? The UK, the republic of Ireland, or someone else?

The power-sharing agreement doesn't change sovereignty - and the reason there is a power-sharing agreement is because there's a large minority community in Northern Ireland who would prefer Northern Ireland was not a seperate country under sovereign control of the UK. Power-sharing doesn't change that, but it does allow them a voice and a say in how Northern Ireland is run.

Since there is virtually nobody in Gibraltar itself who actually wants to be part of Spain, there is no party equivalent to Sinn Fein or other nationalist/republican parties to represent them, so there's nobody for the politicians there to share power with, unless you gave it to Spanish politicians who do not live there, which wouldn't be very democratic to the people that do.

The power in Gibraltar itself is already in the hands of elected politicans who wish to remain under British sovereignty - anyone who stood as a politician in Gibraltar on a pro-Spanish-sovereignty ticket would struggle to get a single vote, let alone be elected.

Therefore no, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland aren't remotely comparable.

Northern Ireland is probably in fact more comparable to Catalonia and the Basque Country, but the comparison there would make the Spanish Government comparable to the British Government, not the Irish Government or Northern Republicans.

Spain has enough on its plate persuading Catalonia and the Basques to remain part of Spain without trying to get another region to be part of Spain which doesn't want to be. Start with keeping what you already have that is at risk of being lost before trying to get what you've already lost back, I'd advise. Still, that's up to them.

[Houyhnhnm]

Nor was this deal ever a secret, in fact the joint sovereignty plan was reported widely at the time. Here's an article in the Mail regarding the negotiations from 2002:

The Foreign Secretary...underlined that the two governments broadly agreed on joint sovereignty of Gibraltar.

Mr Straw outlined the broad agreement reached so far between the UK and Spain on the principles that should underpin a "lasting settlement".

The first of these, he said, was that "Britain and Spain should share sovereignty over Gibraltar, including the disputed territory of the Isthmus".

Governments agree joint sovereignty of Gibraltar | Mail Online