Is the Irish left anti-Semitic?

[L'Chaim]

@ Future Taoiseach - In my last post I was responding to your view of UN Resolution 242, in which you had conveniently left out some very important clauses and words in order to suit your argument. Now you want to shift the focus from 242 to the 2002 Arab League peace plan. Ok, let's look at that then. We'll leave aside your misleading information on Resolution 242. "In 2002 the Arab league offered recognition of Israel in return for the return to 1967 borders....and Israel turned it down". You need to look at what really happened. In 2002 the Arab league didn't offer, they gave Israel a set of demands. What they "offered" was a take it or leave it deal. Israel wanted some ammendments to the plan before they agreed to negotiate.

However five years on and it looks like this this peace plan is being revived. I can't see anything happening short term because there will be huge problems, especially when it comes to the numbers of refugees and their families returning, as well as the major issue of East Jerusalem. The Israelis won't want to let that go. It's religious significance to Israelis is too strong.

[FFKev]

Furthermore, what in the name of all that is holy, is Israel doing in the Eurovision Song Contest?

[L'Chaim]

Furthermore, what in the name of all that is holy, is Israel doing in the Eurovision Song Contest?

Quite Right! What are they thinking of?

[FFKev]

I actually grew up in an area which was predominantly inhabited by Jewish people in England (in fact we were the only "gentiles" in the street).

I knew a young Jew who was passionately opposed to the Israeli position on Palestine and he was routinely accused of anti-semitism.

Just a little aside to illustrate the lunacy of accusing all critics of Israel as being anti-semitic.

[dubsthcentralboy]

I actually grew up in an area which was predominantly inhabited by Jewish people in England (in fact we were the only "gentiles" in the street).

I knew a young Jew who was passionately opposed to the Israeli position on Palestine and he was routinely accused of anti-semitism.

Just a little aside to illustrate the lunacy of accusing all critics of Israel as being anti-semitic.

I dont' think anyone is saying this. I'm certainly not, there is a legitimate criticism of Israel that is essential, the occupation ought to end, but, the point I'm making is that the debate is all one side.

For example, Palestinian militants fire rockets in to Israel EVERY DAY. We never see that on Irish television.

[FFKev]

Sorry if it seemed I was imputing such a suggestion to anyone here. I genuinely wasn't.

That said, it is sometimes the knee-jerk reaction of some to play the anti-semite card in response to criticism of Israel.

[L'Chaim]

Sorry if it seemed I was imputing such a suggestion to anyone here. I genuinely wasn't.

That said, it is sometimes the knee-jerk reaction of some to play the anti-semite card in response to criticism of Israel.

Because someone disagrees with Israeli policy should not be seen as anti semitism. I would fully support Israel's right to exist, their right to defend themselves against attack etc. but there are things the Israeli governmnet do/have done that I don't agree with. You can't agree with everything a government does, but in the case of Israel, it doesn't make you anti-semitic if you disagree with something

[FutureTaoiseach]

However five years on and it looks like this this peace plan is being revived. I can't see anything happening short term because there will be huge problems, especially when it comes to the numbers of refugees and their families returning, as well as the major issue of East Jerusalem. The Israelis won't want to let that go. It's religious significance to Israelis is too strong.

Which confirms the wisdom of my long-held opinion about the threat organised-religion is to global peace and security. It shouldn't be too much to ask for Arab areas of East Jerusalem to be given to the Palestinians to allow their leadership to save face with their people by claiming part of Jerusalem as their capital. As to the Temple Mount that could be internationalised under UN-control, or else joint Israeli-Palestinian control.

Yes, the occupation is illegal and yes many people have lost their lives. Because you're unaware of attacks against the Jewish people doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Hundreds of French people had to make the ascent to the Holy Land last year alone. Synagogues and cemetries are frequently attacked in France, Holland and other European countries.

A man was convicted last year in the high Court in Dublin for attacking a synagogue.

While it may not be PC to say this, it is widely known that the vast majority of anti-semitic attacks in Europe are by (a minority of) Muslims of North African and Middle Eastern origin where anti-semitism admittedly is rife. There is no evidence of a resurgence of anti-semitism in Western Europe. Criticism of Israel yes. But not anti-semitism. I would contend that the best cure for the problem of anti-semitism in the Muslim world is an end to the Israeli-Arab conflict which would help foster better Arab-Israeli relations and an improvement in Israel's image internationally with it not being seen so much as a warmonger.

[dubsthcentralboy]

However five years on and it looks like this this peace plan is being revived. I can't see anything happening short term because there will be huge problems, especially when it comes to the numbers of refugees and their families returning, as well as the major issue of East Jerusalem. The Israelis won't want to let that go. It's religious significance to Israelis is too strong.

Which confirms the wisdom of my long-held opinion about the threat organised-religion is to global peace and security.

Is disorganised religion better for the world? This silly opinion being put forward by agressive secularists is becoming tiresome. About 300 million people were killed worldwide during the 20th Century as a result of organised politics. Isn't that a threat to global peace and security?

[FutureTaoiseach]

However five years on and it looks like this this peace plan is being revived. I can't see anything happening short term because there will be huge problems, especially when it comes to the numbers of refugees and their families returning, as well as the major issue of East Jerusalem. The Israelis won't want to let that go. It's religious significance to Israelis is too strong.

Which confirms the wisdom of my long-held opinion about the threat organised-religion is to global peace and security.

Is disorganised religion better for the world? This silly opinion being put forward by agressive secularists is becoming tiresome. About 300 million people were killed worldwide during the 20th Century as a result of organised politics. Isn't that a threat to global peace and security?

No not of itself. It is authoritarian organised politics that is also a threat to global peace and security. I wouldn't consider liberal democracies to fall into the category of polities that are a threat to global security. It depends on the ideology behind the political-framework, which will differ from country to country. However I consider organised religion to be an example of a potentially dangerous ideology when connected to closely to the State. It that respect it is like the ideologies of Communism and Fascism.

For example, Palestinian militants fire rockets in to Israel EVERY DAY. We never see that on Irish television.

Because usually they don't kill people. In any case the Israeli response tends to be so disproportionate (and therefore in violation of the IDF's own code-of-practice) that it would inevitably spark big headlines or major coverage on news networks. Israel's 'cure' for terrorism tends to be worse than the disease, and makes it worse by creating more widows and bereaved family members. In the case of Lebanon the ratio of Israeli-Lebanese deaths was around 1:10. That is not what I call a proportionate military response. It would be like the British bombing West Belfast or Derry after an IRA bomb say in Warrington. Do you really think that would have made Britain less vulnerable to IRA terrorism? Because I certainly don't.

The strangulation of the Palestinian economy is only a significant factor in the radicalisation of Palestinians and Israel would be wise to desist from the economic sanctions and to accept the Palestinian electorate's decision. Preaching about being a Western democracy carries little credibility in a context where the election-results of others are rejected.