Secret Zimbabwe talks

[CookieMonster]

South Africa has brought together delegates from President Robert Mugabe’s Zanu-PF party and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change in a first round of secret talks to try to resolve the crisis in Zimbabwe, the Financial Times has learnt.

Launching a process that South African sources liken to the clandestine negotiations that led to the end of apartheid, officials from Zimbabwe’s rival parties were flown to a lake resort near Pretoria 10 days ago.

The Zanu-PF delegation of Patrick Chinamasa, the minister of justice, and Nicholas Goche, the labour minister, met first South African officials, and then had a groundbreaking tripartite meeting with representatives from the MDC.

more at ft.com

[Paddylekker]

South Africa's performance on this thus far has been disgraceful. They're hardly honest brokers given that the ANC and Zanu-PF are, in effect, two sides of one coin.

[CookieMonster]

I was thinking that and wondering what the talks are all about? Mugabe is still sitting pretty and they're still beating the lard out of the Democrats.

[Thac0man]

Past crack downs of opposition in Zimbabwe have always spilled over in tribal point scoring, the current crises is no differant. The Ndebeles people are baring the brunt of starvation and evictions from illegal sqatter camps and being driven into neighbouring counties (Mugabe is Shona I believe). Where SA comes in is that the ANC has courted ZANU PF as a strong African party while at the same time relying on unbridled immigration to bolster its own support base at home. Much of that new imigration is now firmly Anti-Zanu PF and the ANC is looking at having to face Zimbabwes problems square on, in its own back yard. Mounting dis-satisfation with the ANCs unwillingless to tackle mass immigration means ANCs own domestic support may suffer and its traditional tactic of shoring up support via a foreign influx is being eroded.

Any intervention is welcome on South Africas part if it helps bring peace and stability (with Justice) to Zimbabwe. But the ANC at this stage is acting more in the interests of self preservation than any higher cause. Sadly the situation it finds itself in is one it helped create.

[trickpa]

I'll Zimbabwe you good !

[setanta]

South Africa's performance on this thus far has been disgraceful. They're hardly honest brokers given that the ANC and Zanu-PF are, in effect, two sides of one coin.

What a crass and ignorant comment.

While the SA government's tolerance of Mugabe's actions has been extremely disappointing given the democratic credentials of the ANC, even the most jaundiced person with only a passing interest in Southern Africa would be able to tell the profound differences between the ANC and ZANU-PF.

Or are you just another bigot who does not think that black Africans can govern themselves?

[trickpa]

The Africianisationism policy that had led previously to the issues regarding all before was ignorant of the issues not dealt with it. In a way the power had been diluted over the time not before thought possible in a way that didnt work well in the model. For the future there will need to be changes I agree.....what that change or changes will be remains to be seen....will the answer lie within perhaps - perhaps not....you tell me !

[trickpa]

South Africa's performance on this thus far has been disgraceful. They're hardly honest brokers given that the ANC and Zanu-PF are, in effect, two sides of one coin.

What a crass and ignorant comment.

While the SA government's tolerance of Mugabe's actions has been extremely disappointing given the democratic credentials of the ANC, even the most jaundiced person with only a passing interest in Southern Africa would be able to tell the profound differences between the ANC and ZANU-PF.

Or are you just another bigot who does not think that black Africans can govern themselves?

who was that aimed at?

[Paddylekker]

South Africa's performance on this thus far has been disgraceful. They're hardly honest brokers given that the ANC and Zanu-PF are, in effect, two sides of one coin.

What a crass and ignorant comment.

While the SA government's tolerance of Mugabe's actions has been extremely disappointing given the democratic credentials of the ANC, even the most jaundiced person with only a passing interest in Southern Africa would be able to tell the profound differences between the ANC and ZANU-PF.

Or are you just another bigot who does not think that black Africans can govern themselves?

You're a gas man.

There's nothing inherently undemocratic about Zanu-PF. The party has been corrupted by Mugabe who started off reasonably well.

And you don't have to be jaundiced or have any more than a passing interest in Southern Africa affairs to know that the shared history of the ANC and Zanu-PF means that the ANC will always be seen as supporters of Zanu-PF by other groups in the region. The ANC owes their comrades in Zanu-PF a huge debt for their support in the struggle against apartheid.

I think I'll ignore your other hysterical rantings about being bigoted as well as your rather patronising implied racism about "black Africans".

I live in South Africa and have done so for the last five years.

[setanta]

The Africianisationism policy that had led previously to the issues regarding all before was ignorant of the issues not dealt with it. In a way the power had been diluted over the time not before thought possible in a way that didnt work well in the model. For the future there will need to be changes I agree.....what that change or changes will be remains to be seen....will the answer lie within perhaps - perhaps not....you tell me !

Congratulations to you, trickpa, for trying your hand at English, but the expectation of most people on this board is that the words are organised into proper sentences that we can all read and understand.