Israeli court jails Arab man for pretending to be Jewish: 'rape by deception'.

[edor]

It's a crime there to obtain sex by deception. It's a crime in other countries. This man obtained sex by deception. Why are Israel racists for prosecuting that?

Now if you know of similar claims by non-jewish men or women which were ignored by the Israeli authorities then you've got a claim for racism. Right now you've just got "Man convicted of committing a crime in a country."

And we're right back to the point 90% of the threads on the middle east end up, with people just talking about how much they dislike Israelis/Arabs/Klingons.

Let's imagine it happened in Northern Ireland. A catholic man pretends to be protestant and sleeps (consenually) with a protestant woman. She finds out - can he be done for rape? Not on the basis of religion.

Similarly, if a married man took his ring off for a night on the tiles and picked up and had consenesual sex with a girl who thought he was single - is this rape? No

This is racism because it is clearly because of the man's background that this case was prosecuted. It appears a new crime was invented to facilitate it. It was not rape - it was rape by deception. It could be dangerous where this leads.

[sondagefaux]

How is getting sex by deception a crime in Ireland?

The crime is if you lie about your identity (i.e give a false name, or pretend to be a doctor in order to carry out a vaginal examination) or the nature of the sexual act.

If you lie about your age, your ethnicity, your religion or some other characteristic, it's not a crime.

[Rocky]

How is getting sex by deception a crime in Ireland?

There is a serious of cases on it, dealing with different examples of deception. A good example would be if I looked similar to a girls boyfriend and posed as him and the girl had sex with me because she thought I was her boyfriend. That would be rape.

[blackpitts]

There are really two issues here. The first if is whether or not there should be a legal offense of 'rape by deception' in the first place, and not just in Israel; the second is whether or not the court in Israel would have found differently if it was a jewish man pretending to be muslim to sleep with a muslim woman.

Personally, with very few exceptions (such as men pretending to be doctors in order to examine a woman vaginally) I find the idea of rape by deception rather bizarre; to my mind sex is either consensual or it isn't. If one applies the standard imposed in the earlier Israeli case quoted above, which seems to be the only standard possible if one is going to have an offence of 'rape by deception' in the first place, then it begs the question what "critical matters to a reasonable woman" should be allowed to include and to what extent can these be personal prejudices.

a conviction for rape should be imposed any time a "person does not tell the truth regarding critical matters to a reasonable woman, and as a result of misrepresentation she has sexual relations with him."

Also, do/should these laws apply to women who deceive men into having sex? "She told me she was on the pill so not only should I not have to pay child support but I want her jailed." Somehow I don't see that happening.

[edor]

There is a serious of cases on it, dealing with different examples of deception. A good example would be if I looked similar to a girls boyfriend and posed as him and the girl had sex with me because she thought I was her boyfriend. That would be rape.

You must have a twin to think of that one!!

[Cael]

If for instance though she told him she was a millionaire and knew the man had sworn he would never sleep with someone who wasn't a millionaire, then sure, why shouldn't that be prosecutable?

Wouldnt the deception of the man not come into it. Why would he swear to only sleep with millionaires - if he didnt not expect to be able to decieve them out of certain material benefits?

[Munnkeyman]

It's nearly like the Nuremberg Laws.
Although in an unwritten social context.



Section 2 Extramarital sexual intercourse between Jews and subjects of the state of Germany or related blood is forbidden.

• [COLOR=black](Supplementary decrees set Nazi definitions of racial Germans, Jews, and half-breeds or [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Mischlinge[/COLOR][COLOR=black] --- see the latter entry for details and citations and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Mischling Test[/COLOR][COLOR=black] for how such decrees were applied. Jews could not vote or hold public office under the parallel "citizenship" law.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Section 5[/COLOR]

1. [COLOR=black]A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with imprisonment or with hard labour.[/COLOR]

Say if the guy in question was from any other religion of the abrahamic faith would the 18 month sentence have been applied?


Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying:
"I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman?
"Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."


Damn did I just fail Godwins Law? oops

[Rocky]

You must have a twin to think of that one!!

It's happened. I can't think of the name, but there is a case on it.

[Cael]

There is a serious of cases on it, dealing with different examples of deception. A good example would be if I looked similar to a girls boyfriend and posed as him and the girl had sex with me because she thought I was her boyfriend. That would be rape.

That might happen in movies, but not in reality.

[Scipio]

In fairness, the Welsh case is a different kettle of fish. There a man tried to convince a woman that she would be cured of an infection if she had sex with him, something which was evidently untrue. The woman wasn't looking for any kind of physical relationship, she was seeking a medical remedy, so there, rape by deception is a charge which clearly stands up.

Mr Rees said the woman found the sessions "clinical," not at all erotic. She consented only because she believed it was a proper treatment.

"It began to dawn on her that he had devised this treatment in order to have sex with her on his terms," he said.

This woman, on the other hand, was obviously out in the full knowledge that her night may end on amorous terms and consented to engage in such activity on the basis that the guy in question was a Jewish bachelor. Instead, the individual was a Muslim. If every man who stretched his background in such a fashion, i.e. pretending to be a high roller instead of admitting to really being a plumber, got jailed under a charge of rape by deception, the world's jails would be overflowing.

Furthermore, there's more than a fair chance if the rolls were reversed, and we were dealing with a female Muslim and a male Jew, it wouldn't even have gotten to court.

Another element to take into account is the following:

Although Kashur was initially charged with rape and indecent assault, this was changed to a charge of rape by deception as part of a plea bargain arrangement.

The ruling, and the behaviour of the investigators on the case, set a disturbing precedent.