Irish Left and Israel/Palestine

[FutureTaoiseach]

I would like to take this opportunity to put a question to the Irish Left. I find it almost impossible to agree with them on any issue - but this is an exception. I support their stance in favour of an end to the occupation of the Palestinians, an end to settlement-building, and in some cases for sanctions against Israel e.g. SF's calls for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. Well and good.

Here is what bemuses me. How does the Irish Left reconcile it's support for Palestinian nationalists seeking self-determination on the one hand, with its opposition to nationalism within Ireland and the EU? And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

[dotski_w_]

I would like to take this opportunity to put a question to the Irish Left. I find it almost impossible to agree with them on any issue - but this is an exception. I support their stance in favour of an end to the occupation of the Palestinians, an end to settlement-building, and in some cases for sanctions against Israel e.g. SF's calls for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. Well and good.

Here is what bemuses me. How does the Irish Left reconcile it's support for Palestinian nationalists seeking self-determination on the one hand, with its opposition to nationalism within Ireland and the EU? And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

Ummm ... given we don't oppose the murder of Palestinians on nationalist grounds, and given most of the mad Zionist types are also anti-EU (given they see it as 'biased' against Israel), and given our arguments (at least on my part) are that it's people that matter more than national or religious identity ...

I'm genuinely bemused as to why you are baffled. The conservative (as opposed to neo-nazi) right are usually (with exceptions) relatively pro-Israel, on grounds that are consistent with their over-arching philosophy. The left, are generally categorised, as you say, on pro-Palestinian, again based on an approach consistent with own political philosophy.


There are of course exceptions (I think L'Chaim may have said he's left of centre), some right-wingers oppose Israel (although sometimes for less than wholesome reasons) and there are some of us like me who are against what Israel is doing, but support its right to exist (although I think they are - tragically - sowing the seeds of their own destruction).

But support for Palestinian human rights is hardly inconsistent with socialist thought, so perhaps you'd like to reconsider who is exactly contradicting themselves....

[jcdf]

I would like to take this opportunity to put a question to the Irish Left. I find it almost impossible to agree with them on any issue - but this is an exception. I support their stance in favour of an end to the occupation of the Palestinians, an end to settlement-building, and in some cases for sanctions against Israel e.g. SF's calls for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. Well and good.

Here is what bemuses me. How does the Irish Left reconcile it's support for Palestinian nationalists seeking self-determination on the one hand, with its opposition to nationalism within Ireland and the EU? And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

One yardstick for the developed or soon to be developed world and another for the rest.

I disagree with the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. It is juvenile in the extreme, popularism nothing more, and makes proper dialogue impossible. The only situation that warrants such an action is war. Are we going to war with Israel?

[arcadeparade]

And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

What a stupid thing to say. Did you really just compare immigration to apartheid?! Get your finger out of your hole and stop talking s.hite.

[White Horse]

Here is what bemuses me. How does the Irish Left reconcile it's support for Palestinian nationalists seeking self-determination on the one hand, with its opposition to nationalism within Ireland and the EU? And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

The main reason is that the US backs Israel. If the US backed the Arabs, they would be waving The Star of David flag.

The US plays no part in the EU debate, so it doesn't interest them

[SilverSpurs]

I would like to take this opportunity to put a question to the Irish Left. I find it almost impossible to agree with them on any issue - but this is an exception. I support their stance in favour of an end to the occupation of the Palestinians, an end to settlement-building, and in some cases for sanctions against Israel e.g. SF's calls for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. Well and good.

Here is what bemuses me. How does the Irish Left reconcile it's support for Palestinian nationalists seeking self-determination on the one hand, with its opposition to nationalism within Ireland and the EU? And how does it reconcile its opposition to the Israeli settlements with its support for mass-immigration into Ireland and the EU?

Future i will try to shed some light. First there are 3 irish lefts; 1- The ideological left, 2- The economic left as personified by the socialist wing of Labour, 3- The liberal left as personified by the LibDem wing of Labour.

1- The idealogical left are kneejerk anti-US. Therefore US support for Israel means they support the other side. They welcome immigration as it helps break the status quo. They welcome outside interference but only if its their type of interference, thus they are anti-market and anti-EU....for now.
2- The economic left are less concerned with Israel/Palestine but will tend to hold a national government to a higher standard than paramilitaries. They would welcome immigration and some outside intereference if it was the right type of interference. They are more sympathetic to the EU than the idealogical left and see it as reformable and a means of imposing their agenda however they will not support it unconditionally.
3- The liberal left are far more pro-Israel and could be heavily critical of Palestine. They welcome immigration to help break the status quo and embrace the EU as a means of imposing their agenda and largely support it unconditionally.

[oceanclub]

I would like to take this opportunity to put a question to the Irish Left. I find it almost impossible to agree with them on any issue - but this is an exception. I support their stance in favour of an end to the occupation of the Palestinians, an end to settlement-building, and in some cases for sanctions against Israel e.g. SF's calls for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador. Well and good.

First of all, it might be a start to a meeting of minds if you realise there is no such thing as a Left "hive mind". There are probably as many opinions about Israel/Palestine on the left as there are people.

P.

[SevenStars]

First of all, it might be a start to a meeting of minds if you realise there is no such thing as a Left "hive mind". There are probably as many opinions about Israel/Palestine on the left as there are people.

P.

He asked for those on the Left to reply...Arent you in the Labour Party?

[arcadeparade]

He asked for those on the Left to reply...Arent you in the Labour Party?

ooh...burn.

[oceanclub]

He asked for those on the Left to reply...Arent you in the Labour Party?

P.