Clashes between UAF and EDL in Bolton

[Thranduil]

One Mi5 controlled and run org. battling another.

+1

Why not invite the BNP and then we can have three MI5 organisations doing battle? The members probably wink and laugh at each other during the battles, maybe exchange first name greetings or tips on when the media are going to show up.

The anti-fascists are full of thugs as well, if someone strikes you the fact that he has an anti-fascist emblem instead of a neo nazi (or in this case anti-Muslim) one doesn't make the assault any less serious.

The funny thing is something both groups have in common is enthusiasm about Israel/Judaism (the left defends Judaism above all as innocent and holy - the right praises Zionism as the ultimate paragon of what they stand for), here British Zionist Dennis McShane praises the UAF's ideology while the EDL frequently use Israeli flags in their marches.

A brief interview with Denis MacShane Though Cowards Flinch

Clever guys the Zionists, they always buy both sides - that way you can never really lose. Britain is increasingly functioning as little more than a Jewish-dominated life support machine for Israel so the focus is placed on a Muslim versus 'nativism' narrative, played out in impotent and debate-destroying little street battles that everyone is encouraged to view and pick a side on.

[Clanrickard]

" "Today in Bolton we have seen some small evidence of this protest in the form of flag waving and vitriolic name calling - but we have also seen groups of people, predominantly associated with the UAF, engaging in violent confrontation. "It is clear to me that a large number have attended today with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable. Turning their anger onto police officers they acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protestors and members of the public.
"The police are not and should not be the target of such violence and anger and this protest and the actions of some of the protestors is roundly condemned by GMP and by Bolton Council. Were it not for the professionalism and bravery of police officers many others would have been seriously injured. I would also like to praise the efforts of the EDL stewards who worked with us in the face of some very ugly confrontations." GMP will now be reviewing CCTV from the day to identify other people involved in inciting or committing disorder. ." Chief Supt Steve Hartley, Bolton's divisional commander, said: "This has been without doubt one of the most challenging days, not only as divisional commander of Bolton but as a police officer."

So it was the UAF, the trendy lefties, middle classes with nothing to do who rioted and stopped the free expression by the EDL who are by the way such Nazis that they fly Israeli flags. and have black memebers. If the body politics in England took the threat of radical Islam seriously there would be no EDL.

[Fantasia]

the clash was most likely between the PC Bloggs and Co and the peaceful EDL demonstrators

[pete2]

Photo accompanying the Times article on the incident

Dozens arrested as anti-Muslim English Defence League protestors battle rivals - Times Online

Wonder whether this is a representative sample of those in attendance for the UAF, and if so whether the UAF is really just a flag of convenience for other political groups.

[agora]

WOW, Do you really believe this is a middle class working class issue? Talk about taking things at face value.

Only the lower class can be racist or xenophobe?

Of course the "lower class" as you call them are not the only ones who can be racist but the reality is that the working class have been left with a much smaller share of the economic pie since Thatcher et al came to power & so they are more likely to be competing for scarce resources with poor immigrants. Most middle class people aren't faced with such challenges. They're not left waiting for years on housing lists and generally have better access to education & employment than those in more deprived areas & so feel justified in dismissing the concerns & complaints of working class people as "racism" & "xenophobia".

In some cases it is pure racism but generally the reason for the rise of far right groups (who tend to be strongest in quite deprived areas of Britain) is the fact that mainstream parties have effectively abandoned the working class leaving the only people willing to listen to them & provide solutions (wrong ones in my view) are groups like the EDL & BNP.

It would perhaps be inaccurate to say that either the EDL or UAF was 100% working or middle class but if one views footage of the protests & sees interviews with members of both groups that would appear that that is more or less where the line is drawn in terms of social (as opposed to political) differences between the two.

[jtbooker]

The term "fascist" in modern parlance, like "nazi" & "commie" is just another meaningless buzzword that ignorant morons of the Left & Right use to bash their opponents with. Groups who use this kind of language are generally frustrated & have a vague idea that doing something political would help something or other but they're too lazy and/or dim to actually educate themselves properly in their chosen philosophy. In the US one sees similar stuff at Tea Party rallies with people drawing Hitler moustaches on pictures of Obama.

+1

Unfortunately you can throw the 'racist' buzzword in to that cheapened list of nothing labels...

[Catalpa]

I appreciate your concerns, but there are reasons why I think they deserve the epithet fascist:
1. They have street-gangs who use violence against their opponents.
2. They have many connections with skinheads and other neo-nazi's: just check out their history of violent clashes and videos of their members giving the Hitler salute.

Thats why I think they deserve to be called a fascist organisation. From a socialist perspective fascism has nothing to do with the fact that someones opinions are right wing, but just that they are involved in an organisation that is dedicated to using violence against left-wing activists.

They have street-gangs who use violence against their opponents.

So do Communists - in fact the Nazi street gangs were set up to counter this.

They have many connections with skinheads

There might be fascist skinheads - but skinheads are not in general fascists - most of them wouldn't even know what the word meant.

In fact a lot of people who spout 'fascist' don't even know what it means either IMO.

[eoghanacht]

Of course the "lower class" as you call them are not the only ones who can be racist but the reality is that the working class have been left with a much smaller share of the economic pie since Thatcher et al came to power & so they are more likely to be competing for scarce resources with poor immigrants. Most middle class people aren't faced with such challenges. They're not left waiting for years on housing lists and generally have better access to education & employment than those in more deprived areas & so feel justified in dismissing the concerns & complaints of working class people as "racism" & "xenophobia".

In some cases it is pure racism but generally the reason for the rise of far right groups (who tend to be strongest in quite deprived areas of Britain) is the fact that mainstream parties have effectively abandoned the working class leaving the only people willing to listen to them & provide solutions (wrong ones in my view) are groups like the EDL & BNP.

It would perhaps be inaccurate to say that either the EDL or UAF was 100% working or middle class but if one views footage of the protests & sees interviews with members of both groups that would appear that that is more or less where the line is drawn in terms of social (as opposed to political) differences between the two.

I couldn't agree more. I thought you were sneering at the working class, as so many here do. Apologies for the confusion

[agora]

They have street-gangs who use violence against their opponents.

So do Communists - in fact the Nazi street gangs were set up to counter this.

They have many connections with skinheads

There might be fascist skinheads - but skinheads are not in general fascists - most of them wouldn't even know what the word meant.

In fact a lot of people who spout 'fascist' don't even know what it means either IMO.

Perhaps it would be useful in many countries, whether Britain, Ireland, USA or wherever to have all schoolchildren take a compulsory module explaining what basic political phrases meant & the historical context in which they arose so that people would see the differences between what they saw as "fascism", "communism", "racism" or whatever & actual incidences of these things. Perhaps if the ignoramuses of the UAF et al were educated about the real racism faced by West Indian immigrants to Britain in the 50s & the genuine plight of Hitler's victims they might not be so quick to throw the words "racist" & "facist" around so lightly.

[agora]

I couldn't agree more. I thought you were sneering at the working class, as so many here do. Apologies for the confusion

No problem & apologies on my part if my post didn't state my views clearly enough.