Irish opinions are worthless when it comes to EU foreign policy - SF

[Aindriu]

We voted again because a majority of our elected representatives voted to put a referendum to the people. Sarkozy had nothing to do with it.

We were duped sin é.

[ibis]

Several of the ministers - France, Spain, Italy, Estonia, Sweden, Finland and Turkey were represented - praised the small informal setting, which included few officials and no note-takers.

Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt said it was "useful," while France's Mr Kouchner pointed to the fact the ministers had "hours" rather than just minutes to discuss issues. He suggested more small-group discussions based on a rotation of ministers and "devoted to one particular topic."

Mr Stubb has already indicated he wants to showcase more of his native Finland, suggesting a further two to three meetings in the Lake District and in the Finnish Archipelago.

"I think these type of informal discussions are what we need inside the European Union because it gives food for thought for our long term decisions," said Mr Stubb, indicating that he would in future invite Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov to be the outside "commentator" on EU foreign policy - a role Turkey's foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu played over the weekend.

Others warned against formalising small-group gatherings, however. "Let's keep the informality," Mr Bildt told this website. He was also less gung ho about the foreign minister as special envoy idea, saying: "We started a discussion about that but I think that will take its time."

So...informal meeting of a small number of foreign ministers (including those foreign policy heavyweights Estonia and Sweden) called by the Finnish foreign minister, and with the suggestion of follow-up meetings involving others...and a cheap shot by SF that completely ignores the facts.

Now if only Mary Lou were still an MEP, eh?

[Pat Mc Larnon]

The "EU Summits" referred to by Mr Stubb are meetings of the European Council. That is the Council in which (primarily) the Heads of Government meet and make decisions.

So for European Council meetings, Ireland is represented "at the heart of decision making" by the Taoiseach.

Maybe SF should try reading the EU Treaties some time....

Maybe instead of linking to EU gloss pieces you would do well to read the Treaties yourself.

[Supermanpolitician]

We were duped sin é.

Sounds like you have a problem with the Dail.

I would contend that many who voted No did so because of lies about EU conscription, abortion laws etc.

[Aindriu]

Sounds like you have a problem with the Dail.

I do indeed. Irish politics is known worldwide for its corruption especially Fianna FAIL. We need a damned good clear out.

[hiding behind a poster]

History will judge the ramifications of the massive snub to the Irish electorate, not you or I.

So if the Irish electorate were so snubbed, why did they vote Yes by 67-33 second time around?

[hiding behind a poster]

We were duped sin é.

We were duped by whom?

[Aindriu]

We were duped by whom?

Every political party.

"Vote Yes for jobs!"

Funny that. Just after the referendum approved Lisbon our unemployment figures went into overdrive.

I have yet to see any great evidence of European investment into Ireland PLC to stop the freefall and create jobs.

[gaius hippingo]

So if the Irish electorate were so snubbed, why did they vote Yes by 67-33 second time around?

Fear, and lies for a start - Vote Lisbon for Jobs?

I'll also stop you before you come out with the predicatable ''that was FF'' as well. Believe what you want, its quite apparent that winning is the only virture you aspire to, the ends justifying the means and all that.

As I said, history will judge the snub, not just to us but to the French and the Dutch and the rest of the EU who didnt get a chance.

You'll have to be put on ignore, you are, without a doubt one of the most predicatable and tedious posters on the site, I can usually guess with a high degree of accuracy what you are going to say next, wheres the fun in debating in that so?+

[hiding behind a poster]

Every political party.

Well vote them out if you don't like them. That's democracy. But if more people vote them in than vote them out, that's democracy too.

"Vote Yes for jobs!"

Funny that. Just after the referendum approved Lisbon our unemployment figures went into overdrive.

No it didn't - the majority of our increase in unemployment came BEFORE the referendum.

I have yet to see any great evidence of European investment into Ireland PLC to stop the freefall and create jobs.

Well no party made the argument that Lisbon would cause that, so I don't know what your point is.