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Thread: Bolivarian socialism is murder. Literally.

  1. #41
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    Chavez is supported by the people. That is why he has not been overthrown. He has the approval of people who slaved and were exploited by the wealthy, for many generations. Like the people of Cuba and of Bolivia they have no wish to return to the exploitation which was a key feature of those times. I'd like to see the source of these alleged murder statistics.

  2. #42
    Politics.ie Member CookieMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Do you think the people who ran the country for , say, the hundred years prior to Chavez have any responsibility for poverty, poor literacy rates, life expectancy etc. ? I'm pretty sure they have had oil there for quite some time now.
    On the matters of literacy, life expectancy, infant mortality and poverty:

    Life expectancy.
    According to the United Nations average life expectancy in Ireland between 2005 and 2010 is 78.9 years.
    In Chile it's 77.34 years and in Venevuela it's 73.7 years. While those poor oppressed souls under the capitalist Great Satan, the US, enjoy a life expectancy of 79.01 years.
    In 1980 the life expectancy in Venezuela was 67.5 years. Increasing over the next twenty years to 72.8 (+5.3/20 years). Since Chavez has come to power the rate of increase has slowed only increasing by 0.9/10 years.

    Literacy rates.
    Again using figured from the UN we find that Ireland and the US have an adult literacy rate of 99%. Chile, which I am using as a comparable South American country, has a literacy rate of 96.5%. Once again Venezuela lags behind at 95.2%. Incidentally, adult illiteracy in Venezuela stood at 16.1% in 1980 to 7.5% in 2000 pre Chavez and since Chavez took power the rate of decline in adult illiteracy has slowed to 2.7% over ten years.

    Infant mortality.
    This was probably the most shocking one of all for me. Again using the United Nations World Population Prospects report 2005-2010 we start with Ireland's infant mortality rate (deaths per 1000 live births) which is 4.9/1000. The United States is 6.3/1000. Chile is 6.3/1000 and Venezuela 17/1000.
    Once again, looking behind the numbers, in 1980 the infant mortality rate in Venezuela was 34/1000 falling to 20/1000 in 2000. In the ten years since Chavez came to power the rate of infant mortality has only fallen by 3/1000. Again we see, like Literacy illiteracy rares, under Chavez the rate of improvement has been slower, not faster that the previous 20 years.

    Gross Domestic Product ( purchasing-power-parity).
    Finally, a quick comparison on the GDP of Venezuela and Chile. I think it's important to bear in mind that Chile has significantly less natural resources than Venezuela.
    In 1999 Chile had a GDP of $9017.52 and Venezuela had a GDP of $8219.27. A gap of $798.25.
    In 2009 Chile's GDP had grown by $5281.85 to $14299.37 and Venezuela's by 4276.65 to 12.495.92. A gap of $1803.45, more than double what it was.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    If you look at the Top 12 countries in the world for homocides, six of them are in this immediate region. Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Venezuela, Colombia, Belize.

    5 of these are run, to my knowledge, by pro western governments.

    But lets ignore a regional problem and asssert that the Bolivarian Revolution is literally equal to murder.

    How bogus can you get ..
    Have any of them shown a similar rapid rate of increase as VZA?

    (And no, I don't subscribe to the hysterical OP or heading.)
    "Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse." - Pierre-Simon de Laplace to Napoleon Bonaparte.

  4. #44
    Politics.ie Member CookieMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    If you look at the Top 12 countries in the world for homocides, six of them are in this immediate region. Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Venezuela, Colombia, Belize.

    5 of these are run, to my knowledge, by pro western governments.

    But lets ignore a regional problem and asssert that the Bolivarian Revolution is literally equal to murder.

    How bogus can you get ..
    The quadrupling of the homicide rate is not a regional problem.

    Taking to of the above countries, Honduras and El Salvador

    1996 the rate of homicides per 100,000 in Honduras was 35. In increased to a high on 56 in 2002, declined for the next two years to 32 and then increased again to 58 in 2008.

    In El Slavador the numbers are not so comprehensive but it's experienced an increase from 36 1999 to 55 in 2006.

    Venevuela's rate bumped between a low of13 and a high of 22 in the ten years pre-Chavez. In 1999 it was 25 per hundred thousand. The lowest it has been since then is 33 and the highest 52. There is a very obvious increase since Chavez came to power which is not in line with the other two countries.

  5. #45
    Politics.ie Member CookieMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxtime View Post
    Chavez is supported by the people. That is why he has not been overthrown.
    He has not been overthrown because he has been very active in quashing any opposition which dares to challenge him. If he was confident that the people supported him he wouldn't have to do that.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    The quadrupling of the homicide rate is not a regional problem.

    Taking to of the above countries, Honduras and El Salvador

    1996 the rate of homicides per 100,000 in Honduras was 35. In increased to a high on 56 in 2002, declined for the next two years to 32 and then increased again to 58 in 2008.

    In El Slavador the numbers are not so comprehensive but it's experienced an increase from 36 1999 to 55 in 2006.

    Venevuela's rate bumped between a low of13 and a high of 22 in the ten years pre-Chavez. In 1999 it was 25 per hundred thousand. The lowest it has been since then is 33 and the highest 52. There is a very obvious increase since Chavez came to power which is not in line with the other two countries.

    So, what is your explanation for this? Not enough police?
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    So, what is your explanation for this? Not enough police?
    Even if it is a lack of police that would still be a failure of government. Why are you trying to deflect blame away from the government of VZA?
    "Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse." - Pierre-Simon de Laplace to Napoleon Bonaparte.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    Gross Domestic Product ( purchasing-power-parity).
    Finally, a quick comparison on the GDP of Venezuela and Chile. I think it's important to bear in mind that Chile has significantly less natural resources than Venezuela.
    In 1999 Chile had a GDP of $9017.52 and Venezuela had a GDP of $8219.27. A gap of $798.25.
    In 2009 Chile's GDP had grown by $5281.85 to $14299.37 and Venezuela's by 4276.65 to 12.495.92. A gap of $1803.45, more than double what it was.
    So in other words over the period GDP increased by something like 58% in Chle compared to 52% in Venezuela.

    Wow, what a terrible performance by Chavez.

    But Chile has SIGNIFICANTLY less resources!

    Really? Doesn't it export something like 35 Billion dollars of copper a year? And that is just one of its many resources. You thought the CIA overthrew Allende because Chile had no resources?

    I won't bother addressing your other feeble points as I do not think you are interested in looking at anything in an objective manner.

    What is the preoccupation with Chile btw? It is at the other end of the continent. Maybe we could compare Venezuela with some other countries around it.
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    Even if it is a lack of police that would still be a failure of government. Why are you trying to deflect blame away from the government of VZA?
    Unless someone presents me with a clear analysis of the cause of the high murder rate in Venezuela (and the region generally) I am not going to blame anyone. Unlike others I am not in the business of blaming people for things I do not know the cause of.
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    So in other words over the period GDP increased by something like 58% in Chle compared to 52% in Venezuela.

    Wow, what a terrible performance by Chavez.

    But Chile has SIGNIFICANTLY less resources!

    Really? Doesn't it export something like 35 Billion dollars of copper a year? And that is just one of its many resources. You thought the CIA overthrew Allende because Chile had no resources?

    I won't bother addressing your other feeble points as I do not think you are intreested in looking at anything in an objective manner.

    What is the preoccupation with Chile btw? It is at the other end of the continent. Maybe we could compare Venezuela with some other countries around it.
    You're darting around wilding trying to find points of distraction. You ignore the following facts:

    In 1980 the life expectancy in Venezuela was 67.5 years. Increasing over the next twenty years to 72.8 (+5.3/20 years). Since Chavez has come to power the rate of increase has slowed only increasing by 0.9/10 years.

    Adult illiteracy in Venezuela stood at 16.1% in 1980 to 7.5% in 2000 pre Chavez and since Chavez took power the rate of decline in adult illiteracy has slowed to 2.7% over ten years.

    In 1980 the infant mortality rate in Venezuela was 34/1000 falling to 20/1000 in 2000. In the ten years since Chavez came to power the rate of infant mortality has only fallen by 3/1000. Again we see, like Literacy illiteracy rares, under Chavez the rate of improvement has been slower, not faster that the previous 20 years.

    And then accuse me of not being objective. I'm afraid that doesn't stand.

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