Bolivarian socialism is murder. Literally.

[Chrisco]

Given that the armed forces of right-wing governments in Latin America have, within the scope of a single generation, engaged in the abduction and gang-rape of young women of allegedly left-wing sympathies, the impregnation of many of these women, the sustaining of the lives of these captives merely until the child products of rape were born, and the torture-murders of these young mothers once their children had been taken away for a 'christian' upbringing by the families of right-wing politicians, I would recommend you engage in a little circumspection before ascribing 'moral bankruptcy' to the opponents of these mass-murderers.

Thousands of young people suspected of 'left-wing' sympathies met similar fates, and no doubt their torturers and killers shared many of your views of people of the left. The extreme contempt you display for people of the left must have been a factor when US-trained Latin American fascists were busy drowning students in baths of excrement, not that I'm placing you on the same moral plane as the legions of right-wing mass-killers.

We'll take no lessons in 'morality' from those who target the same movements as did Pinochet and his allies.

What a bizarre post!

[Sam Lord]

Vile racist theory? I do not recall using any racist words or saying anything specifically racist.

There are forty-seven countries in sub Saharan Africa. There are always exceptions to every rule and the twelve you listed are just that.

Zambia, Namibia, Niger and Mali are large sparsely populated and in some case landlocked countries. These attributes themselves would explain why their homicide rates are so low. Other countries in your list like Uganda, Ivory Coast, Benin and Senegal are all very small with mostly homogenised populations. Barbados is a tiny island with a population of less than 300,000, everyone probably knows everyone else on the island.

So your thesis is that black people in large countries that are not sparsely populated are "genetically predisposed" (to use your terminology) to murder whereas those in small countries or large ones that are sparsely populated and possibly landlocked are not so "genetically disposed".

I have to say, sometimes I truly despair at what passes for thought on this site. I thought Cookie was vacuous ... and then you came along...

[jcdf]

So your thesis is that black people in large countries that are not sparsely populated are "genetically predisposed" (to use your terminology) to murder whereas those in small countries or large ones that are sparsely populated and possibly landlocked are not so "genetically disposed".

I have to say, sometimes I truly despair at what passes for thought on this site. I thought Cookie was vacuous ... and then you came along...

I am sick and tired of being called a racist by you!

I never mentioned black people. I was talking about groups of common cultural or ancestral origin.

There is no correlation between population density and genetics. I was simply discrediting your previous argument based on exceptional circumstances. Homicide requires at least two people to occur. Homicide rarely happens in sparsely populated countryside or country villages anywhere in the world. Where it happens much more frequently is in the metropolitan areas, cities were people are forced into cramped conditions while remaining anonymous from each other thus creating the opportunity to commit homicide and not be caught. This removes some of the countries from your list being truly representative of the norm.

Ethnic tensions can also increase the likelihood of homicide occurring. Large cities often have diverse ethnic groups in a melting pot leading to homicide. Smaller countries, like some on your list, are less likely to meet this criterion. They have homogenised populations, thus not making them representative of the norm in Africa.

It is worthwhile pointing out here that Senegal, one of the countries on your list offered citizens of Haiti right of return and free land on the exclusive basis that the Haitians originated in Senegal. This offer was not replicated by any other African state. Senegal scored second best on this list of African countries by homicide.

[Sam Lord]

I am sick and tired of being called a racist by you!

I never mentioned black people. I was talking about groups of common cultural or ancestral origin.

You suggested that the high homicide rate in the area of Latin America we are discussing could be a result of these countries having a "significant" population of "sub-saharan africans" i.e. Black people.

"It is worth noting that many parts of South and Central America have significant sub-Saharan African ethnic population groups. The more developed parts of South America with a lower homicide rate such Argentina, Chile and Uruguay has a much less significant sub-Saharan African populations."

This is a straightforward racist theory. Anyone advancing such a theory is a racist.

[Chrisco]

You suggested that the high homicide rate in the area of Latin America we are discussing could be a result of these countries having a "significant" population of "sub-saharan africans" i.e. Black people.

"It is worth noting that many parts of South and Central America have significant sub-Saharan African ethnic population groups. The more developed parts of South America with a lower homicide rate such Argentina, Chile and Uruguay has a much less significant sub-Saharan African populations."

This is a straightforward racist theory. Anyone advancing such a theory is a racist.

+1

[Thac0man]

As usual he is blaming rich people and accusing his opposition (they still have that there?) of exaggerating the scale of the issue.

Its the usual alright, but its a very interesting pattern. Both the greatest exponents of the Chevez/Bolivarian revolution have not only abolished parlimentry democracy, but also it seems fostered a brutal crime wave.

In both countries the police have time to chase and arrest oppostion figures and engage in ardious censorship enforcement, but won't follow up murders? This is one of the most troubling aspects of both Venezuela and Bolivias respective regimes. Centralised, controlling regimes don't even bother to produce proper murder or crime statistics?

[Thac0man]

If we are looking for something in common for this region of Latin America which might be affecting the murder rate I would suggest drugs.

I agree drugs is the cause. With other regional factors it explains the sharp rise in both Bolivia and Venezuela. The accomodation of FARC and its drugs paraphernalia I would guess is the root cause of this crime wave (and the Chavez/Morales tolerance of it). FARC control the drugs trade at source in the region, but those who staff the trade have to be accomodated for FARC to prosper. FARC links to the trade will cause rot in both countries. They cannot easily be turned out and their cohorts of fellow travellers cannot be contained.

Chavez stands accused by Spain of supplying ETA with weapons now. He can get weapons wherever the drugs trade extends. FARCs influence is Chevez to weild.

[cHeal]

Thread reported for it's ridiculous title. F**king pathetic.