Does anyone really care about the Palestinians?

[JSLeFanu]

But that is not what Israel is doing. What Israel is doing goes far beyond what is necessary for self-defence. They lash out like a wounded animal and anyone and anything, including the innocent. All is not fair in love and war. Hamas may be a threat to your security, but it simply doesn'y have the capabilities to constitute an actual threat to the existence of the State of Israel, contrary to the fanatical invective enamating from that sockpuppet AIPAC, the ADL etc.

I think that's correct, at the moment, but the reason it hasn't is because Israel does precisely what we say it shouldn't, namely render its enemy as feeble as it possible to do. Do you think for a minute that HAMAS wouldn't, if it could, render Israel extinct? If you're unsure of the answer, although I suspect you know the answer already, then I'd advise you peruse the HAMAS charter.

The really ugly thing about this situation is that the Arabs can lose often and survive, if Israel loses once its finished, literally and figuratively. It's all very well for us to advise them about restraint from the safety and comfort of Europe but they'd be fools to heed our advice. Sure we'd be sad to see them go, there'd be some handwringing in Brussels, and elsewhere, plenty of speechifying, but do you think the EU would intervene in time to save the jews? Do you really? I think the Jews have enough experience of relying of the goodwill and good nature of Europeans to know that that's a chance they can't afford to take.

[JSLeFanu]

Oh so they're good when compared to surrounding Arabs states? Considering from 1948, the majority of Israelis were in effect educated literate Westerners, with much longer life expectancies as your statisctics show, while their neighbours were newly decolonised poorly educated peasants, that's quite a benchmark.

Tell me, considering Israel is a western democracy, why don't you compare its economic fortunes with a similarly literate, similarly westernised and liberal country like Ireland, and see how its GDP per capita ratings fare. You don't even need to exclude the billions of euros of economic investment that the U.S. has provided to Israel over the past 62 years.

Finding those FACTS disagreeable? I thought you would.

[Toland]

The waddaboutry was in response to FT's waddaboutry question -"

They usually are. Therein lies the tragedy and the farce.

[Riadach]

Finding those FACTS disagreeable? I thought you would.

I wouldn't find those facts of much consequence at all. If the Irish GDP per capita is €11,000 higher than Israel's, not even taking into consideration the fact Israel is a rather larger military and economic aid recipient, then who do you think is running the better economy? I think that just might be a better yardstick of economic effectivness.

Have you also considered that the reasons for Israel's massive defence budget, which you see as a considerable drain on Israel's economy, might be due to decisions made by the institution that should be running that economy?

[JSLeFanu]

I wouldn't find those facts of much consequence at all. If the Irish GDP per capita is €11,000 higher than Israel's, not even taking into consideration the fact Israel is a rather larger military and economic aid recipient, then who do you think is running the better economy? I think that just might be a better yardstick of economic effectivness.

Why does making Israel look bad mean so much to you?

[FutureTaoiseach]

I think that's correct, at the moment, but the reason it hasn't is because Israel does precisely what we say it shouldn't, namely render its enemy as feeble as it possible to do. Do you think for a minute that HAMAS wouldn't, if it could, render Israel extinct? If you're unsure of the answer, although I suspect you know the answer already, then I'd advise you peruse the HAMAS charter.

The really ugly thing about this situation is that the Arabs can lose often and survive, if Israel loses once its finished, literally and figuratively. It's all very well for us to advise them about restraint from the safety and comfort of Europe but they'd be fools to heed our advice. Sure we'd be sad to see them go, there'd be some handwringing in Brussels, and elsewhere, plenty of speechifying, but do you think the EU would intervene in time to save the jews? Do you really? I think the Jews have enough experience of relying of the goodwill and good nature of Europeans to know that that's a chance they can't afford to take.

If they got nuclear weapons and used them against Israel, then the Palestinians would cease to exist too. Which is why that won't happen. Even the Iranian rhetoric is just for domestic consumption. Israel and Iran are as bad as each other. Napoleon was right to say "War justifies everything".

Why does making Israel look bad mean so much to you?

They are doing a good enough job of that themselves. The archetypal colonial bully, playing the victim with the fourth largest army on earth - and nukes too.

[Riadach]

Why does making Israel look bad mean so much to you?

I don't really care for Israel looking bad. I do care for silly statements that imply that if more jews were in Ireland, they'd somehow do a better job of our economy than we would. I just don't like pointless unsubstantiated statements, that may border on insinuations of innate racial supremacy.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I don't really care for Israel looking bag. I do care for silly statements that imply that if more jews were in Ireland, they'd somehow do a better job of our economy than we would. I just don't like pointless unsubstantiated statements, that may border on innate racial supremacy.

That's where being told one are the "Chosen People" gets one.

[regularjoe]

To be honest yes!!!

Popular opinion even in republican america is shifting

those jews better start playing ball and make a settlement.

THE HUNTED HAS BECOME THE HUNTER. But really what has happended is the usa has suffered a great deal and is sick of the palistenian conflict and the resentment to the west. isreal has gone to very dark places with its neighbours.

[Nodin]

Israel has (.....) of self-defence.

As pointed out before, you can't claim self defence while expanding in the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. While Israel is building settlements, its clearly conducting the occupation in order to expand, and is therefore the aggressor.