Google to leave China?

[Interista]

Terrorist ...... human rights activist. There is a difference you know!

Suspected terrorist. I think the point being made is that China has categories of people they feel entitled to spy on, so does the US, and so do most countries. Of course, the situation is much worse in China, but where do you draw the line?

[former wesleyan]

Suspected terrorist. I think the point being made is that China has categories of people they feel entitled to spy on, so does the US, and so do most countries. Of course, the situation is much worse in China, but where do you draw the line?

I'd draw the line at hacking by the government. Censorship is another thing.

[seenitallb4]

Suspected terrorist. I think the point being made is that China has categories of people they feel entitled to spy on, so does the US, and so do most countries. Of course, the situation is much worse in China, but where do you draw the line?

The line is a subjective one and how we make judgements of this sort can be often inconsistent and rarely done with only the purest of motives in mind. How companies make those decisions are even more complicated and is muddied by conflciting considerations of shareholder value and basic morality. Another aspect to this case is that hacking aside, there was also theft of intellectual property and this was directed at other companies too. Clearly the bosses at Google have done their calcualtions and have concluded that there is a qulitative difference between not letting people read about uncomfortable political news and satanding by as their systems were used to spy on people.
I had this siutation myself just last week- I actively distrubute the works of Chinese dissidents by cutting and pasting their works into email and sending them to pro-democracy and pro-human rights friends in China who have requested them. To my friends, who want nothing more than to be able to speak, assemble,worship or organize freely, email surveillance is a big deal. Whateve Google's other motivrs, their stand on this issue is just since it may help to keep innocent people out of prison. Now, I have been to some of these prisons and I have spoken to both those who run them and those who have been in them, and I know what goes on- everything from slavery to sh1tting down the throats of followers of a certain religion. Put in that conetext, I think sparing innocent people this fate is probably the right thing to do. I have a hunch.

[Sync]

A position they could equally take in America under similar circumstances. They're a company, if they want to work in a country, then you obey the laws of that country, which always supercede group goals or policy. If you don't like that, you leave.

A principled stand is "We're not going to move into China because they would censor us and the people"

A business stand is "We're going to do business in countries according to their laws"

A hypocritical stand is "We'll move into China, then act shocked that there's censorship, and then make a production over how we want things to change. Or at least change enough to suit our business model."

[seenitallb4]

Amusing link from a friend in China...provided it doesnt get reversed;

Google

Note the address.

[seenitallb4]

A position they could equally take in America under similar circumstances. They're a company, if they want to work in a country, then you obey the laws of that country, which always supercede group goals or policy. If you don't like that, you leave.

A principled stand is "We're not going to move into China because they would censor us and the people"

A business stand is "We're going to do business in countries according to their laws"

A hypocritical stand is "We'll move into China, then act shocked that there's censorship, and then make a production over how we want things to change. Or at least change enough to suit our business model."

Being hypocritical is not the most severe fault of the parties in this dispute.

[Christine Murray]

BBC News - Google 'may pull out of China after Gmail cyber attack'

Their previous China policy always left me a bit suspicious of their "do no evil" slogan... is there some hope that they'll live up to it?

Guardian has published a 12 month timeline on the Great firewall of China , which I am adding in here :

Internet censorship in China | World news | guardian.co.uk

[Christine Murray]

Spiegel analysis is quite interesting (really) : http://www.spiegel.de/international/...671926,00.html Guardian reckons up to 20 companies may be effected : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...a-cyber-attack

[cyberianpan]

I think we are seeing history in the making here. The US and The West generally is not happy with China, as China steals intellectual property, engages in massive hacking... and denies its citizens human rights

This is the first time when anyone has been so blunt with China, and the Obama administrations followup has been very strong. The Chinese are stunned, still lost for words... and there's little they can says as they were caught red handed

However China is required to reply to the diplomatic protest by the US, it will be interesting to see what they say

Be afraid, China, the Google dragon stirs | Dominic Lawson - Times Online
Google's China Threat Jolts Internet - WSJ.com
Google pulls out of China phone launch - Times Online
Google cyber-attack from China 'an inside job' - Times Online
cYp

[cyberianpan]

China has ratcheted up the row... and is playing the victim

China returns fire against US in Google-war - Times Online
[COLOR="Green"]China today inflamed the international row with America over cyber-attacks on Google, denouncing Hillary Clinton’s criticism of the country's internet curbs as “information imperialism”

Unlike advanced Western countries, Chinese society is still vulnerable to the effect of multifarious information flowing in, especially when it is for creating disorder,” it said.[/COLOR]

These lies are so outrageous that is hard to counter them

Obama is now on board:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8475965.stm
US President Barack Obama continues to be "troubled" by alleged cyber-attacks originating in China on the internet search giant Google, officials say.

cYp