NATO

[THR]

Is there any debate in Ireland about joining NATO? Obviously not since Ireland has no need whatsoever to join NATO.

Here on the Eastern fringes of Europe the situation is quite different. The possible NATO-membership is going to be a dominant issue in the election-campaign next year. The Finnish people are vehemently opposed to NATO-membership but there is a lot of self-delusion going on as the defence appropriations are lowered year after year. "There is nothing threatening us" is a common sentence by politicians. Similar sentences were uttered by the politicians in the 30`s. Finland joined the Ottawa-treaty banning landmines, which is the extreme show of stupidity. In the Finnish wilderness only a hostile invading soldier can tread on a landmine.

The majority of the Finnish people clearly think that the governments and people of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, the Czech republic and a few others are clearly either stupid or misguided as those countries joined NATO at the first opportunity. Why did they join NATO? Because of Russia? But surely those countries have nothing but good experiences of the bear.

It has been said that a major decision like joining NATO would be impossible without a referendum on the issue and since the people are opposed to the idea there is no chance of that happening. However, the constitution doesn`t stipulate about referendums so the parliament can do what it wants. Even though I`m certainly against the thought of people`s will being overridden, in this case the people don`t know what is good for them, patronising as may sound, but it`s true, and therefore the cowardly politicians should get their act together and do the right thing.

The opposers of NATO love to point out that Western-European countries such as Ireland, Austria, Switzerland and Sweden are all non-aligned countries. Well, let`s look at a map. Ireland is in the middle of an ocean thousands of miles of sea to the west and a friendly neighborough to the east. Switzerland and Austria are surrounded by NATO-countries, so it`s impossible to attack them without attacking NATO. Sweden is hiding behind the back of a buffer-country,i.e. Finland.

[jjacollins]

I firmly believe that Ireland should give up the pretence and formally join NATO.

We are all but members of it. US warplanes use our airports all the time and there are suspicious installations in the mountains in Co Clare.

Big radar domes which are NATO standard. I know as I travel to Norway a lot and see the same installstions there as I've seen in Clare.

[Rocky]

Is there any debate in Ireland about joining NATO? Obviously not since Ireland has no need whatsoever to join NATO.

Here on the Eastern fringes of Europe the situation is quite different. The possible NATO-membership is going to be a dominant issue in the election-campaign next year. The Finnish people are vehemently opposed to NATO-membership but there is a lot of self-delusion going on as the defence appropriations are lowered year after year. "There is nothing threatening us" is a common sentence by politicians. Similar sentences were uttered by the politicians in the 30`s. Finland joined the Ottawa-treaty banning landmines, which is the extreme show of stupidity. In the Finnish wilderness only a hostile invading soldier can tread on a landmine.

The majority of the Finnish people clearly think that the governments and people of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, the Czech republic and a few others are clearly either stupid or misguided as those countries joined NATO at the first opportunity. Why did they join NATO? Because of Russia? But surely those countries have nothing but good experiences of the bear.

It has been said that a major decision like joining NATO would be impossible without a referendum on the issue and since the people are opposed to the idea there is no chance of that happening. However, the constitution doesn`t stipulate about referendums so the parliament can do what it wants. Even though I`m certainly against the thought of people`s will being overridden, in this case the people don`t know what is good for them, patronising as may sound, but it`s true, and therefore the cowardly politicians should get their act together and do the right thing.

The opposers of NATO love to point out that Western-European countries such as Ireland, Austria, Switzerland and Sweden are all non-aligned countries. Well, let`s look at a map. Ireland is in the middle of an ocean thousands of miles of sea to the west and a friendly neighborough to the east. Switzerland and Austria are surrounded by NATO-countries, so it`s impossible to attack them without attacking NATO. Sweden is hiding behind the back of a buffer-country,i.e. Finland.

First I think you overestimate the threat of Russia and right now I can't see them invading Finland and would be shocked if they did. Also I think the Eastern European countries joined NATO to become closer to the US and Western Europe more for economic and political reasons, then for defence reasons. They wanted to move away from Russia because of all that happened and because they were worried Russia would still try to dominate them as they have done with Ukraine and joining NATO was a step in the right direction to make that happen. Finland doesn’t have the same problem with Russia.

Now I don't really see a reason why Finland shouldn't join NATO, if something does happen you have protection and there's no harm in it. It will also help you build up your defence forces. However I'm one of the few Irish people who think Ireland should join NATO though, basically for the same reasons, but no it isn't an issue here.

[rockofcashel]

I've often thought myself that we'd be better of to stop pretending, and actually join NATO.

We are for all intents and purposes, members, and we should get the full benefits of membership in that situation.

If we're completely honest with ourselves, the most likely people to attack Ireland (as an all out war), would likely be Britain again if they felt there weatern flank was being threathened, and the only defense we'd have against that, would be a guerilla war as happened before.

I also heard a theory that one of the reasons that Britain wouldn't countenance the re-unification of Ireland in the late 60's/early 70's, was the pressure from America to have strategic use of Northern Ireland, so maybe as members of NATO, that excuse would disappear also.

Its certainly a debate worth having.

[Worldbystorm]

I'd be much happier with a purely European defense context than NATO for this country.

[Worldbystorm]

Actually if I remember correctly wasn't NATO membership often suggested as a quid pro quo, or one of them, for a UI back in the late 1940s or early 1950s under the first Interparty Coalition.

But on a slightly broader point I think defensive postures are entirely acceptable and something we should invest in. The level of investment in the Irish armed forces is abysmal particularly in the context of being a small open island nation which should have a much higher level of security of our territorial waters etc...

[meriwether]

Speaking of NATO et al, did anyone ever hear the rumor that Knock airport was funded secretly by the US/NATO?
Ive been told that at the time, Knock had the biggest runways in Europe. Why would a crappy little airport ned big long wide runways? Well comveniently, US bombers need big long runways.

[Bogwarrior]

Speaking of NATO et al, did anyone ever hear the rumor that Knock airport was funded secretly by the US/NATO?
Ive been told that at the time, Knock had the biggest runways in Europe. Why would a crappy little airport ned big long wide runways? Well comveniently, US bombers need big long runways.

U.S bombers can take off from ships. Crappy pilots need long airways.

[rockofcashel]

Speaking of NATO et al, did anyone ever hear the rumor that Knock airport was funded secretly by the US/NATO?
Ive been told that at the time, Knock had the biggest runways in Europe. Why would a crappy little airport ned big long wide runways? Well comveniently, US bombers need big long runways.

Ever hear the chorus "Did NATO donate, did NATO donate, did NATO donate the dough"

[rockofcashel]

Speaking of NATO et al, did anyone ever hear the rumor that Knock airport was funded secretly by the US/NATO?
Ive been told that at the time, Knock had the biggest runways in Europe. Why would a crappy little airport ned big long wide runways? Well comveniently, US bombers need big long runways.

U.S bombers can take off from ships. Crappy pilots need long airways.

Fighter jets take off from ships...

B52 bombers dont lol