Are Fine Gael Labour ?

[cyberianpan]

Ok so McDowell has put it up to FG that a vote for them is one for Labour. On real-politiks it seems to be, leaving that aside:

What is the difference between FG & Labour ?
The big divisive issues ?
The ones that dare not speak their name- otherwise the love between Enda & Pat is lost ?
Any FG loyalists willing to speak ill of Pat ?
FG have been steadily drifting to the left since the '70s, is this their destination ?
Why don't they merge ?

Gurdurnit: there's more tensions twixt FF & the PDs than FG & Lab !

Going back to real-politiks: if from the above there are substantive differences twixt Labour & FG:

1) What about coalition with FF ?
2) What about choosing the PD's as prefered rainbow partner ahead of Greens in order to make the government more blue ?

I'm quite concerned, I see no sense of urgency & doom in FG, yet they've been slipping away gradually since the '80s. Now it looks like that they're just sloppily merging with Labour.

cYp

[Decko]

yes - a notable left / right divide has been prevelant since 94 - the FG /LAB /WP govt was certainly a move to the left by FG

Its also likely that FF PD will (not withstanding McCreevy's demise) reinforce their right wing credentials whilst the FG/Lab manifesto will likely be focused on increased spending on health /social services. Indeed I can see McDowell in particular committing to reduce the top rate of tax to 40% or lower.

So yes FG are certainly closer to Labour than to FF/PD

[Salthill]

yes - a notable left / right divide has been prevelant since 94 - the FG /LAB /WP govt was certainly a move to the left by FG

Its also likely that FF PD will (not withstanding McCreevy's demise) reinforce their right wing credentials whilst the FG/Lab manifesto will likely be focused on increased spending on health /social services. Indeed I can see McDowell in particular committing to reduce the top rate of tax to 40% or lower.

So yes FG are certainly closer to Labour than to FF/PD

What about Labour's distancing from FG on populist outings like the McNally killing? There is a sense from Labour that they have a core of beliefs which are left of centre (though Rabbitte is spoiling this with some of his panderings, especially on immigration). In relation to FG, the only consistent theme is a willingness to jump on any passing bandwagon.

The thing to note is that this difference is why FG has got all of the anti-government bounce so far. A very dramatic demonstration of the state of Irish public opinion.

[KingKane]

So is FF really the PDs? And can all the non-government candidates use his comments when talking to the FF backbenchers?

[Universal_001]

Isn't it more the case that FF, FG and Labour (and no doubt soon SF) have swallowed PD economics whole? and Labours talk of a "fair economy" and the like is all rethoric?

Labour is much like the US Democrats I think "talk left, act right"

[cyberianpan]

Isn't it more the case that FF, FG and Labour (and no doubt soon SF) have swallowed PD economics whole? and Labours talk of a "fair economy" and the like is all rethoric?

Labour is much like the US Democrats I think "talk left, act right"

I think that say Labour is liberal in terms of letting free enterprise control production. However it is illiberal in that it belives that the State ought re-distribute personal wealth. Indeed even the PD's have bought into disproportionate taxing of the rich. It is extremely unfair that the majority gang up on the rich minority & force them to pay extra taxes for the same services. Taxation is theft !

What liberal agenda have the PD's really influenced ? Nett tax take has increased, the state has increased... they haven't managed to get rid of significant inefficiencies... the perceived tax cuts were due to the buoyancy of the overall economy, something for which it is ludicrous that the PDs take credit for. Indeed it is absurd that say all politicians together ought try to grab all the credit for.

All that though is a different matter, what I am claiming is at issue is that FG are drifting into the arms of Labour- are the parties merging ? Have FG options other than Labour ? Also FG's vote has been falling steadily overall, why aren't they more worried ? Why don't they appear frantically busy ?

cYp

[Rocky]

This is a new one, I thought it was that FG and Labour were too different to work together because FG are right wing and Labour are left wing. Or was it not that Labour were moving to the right because of Rabbitt and the pact and are going to lose their core support to SF. And now I hear FG are moving to the left. What next FG and how they are becoming Communist.

[Harpey]

I joined FG on the basis of it being on the sensible side of the right. THe day it becomes a haven for lefties, I will leave. So being rather comfortable at the moment with my membership, I would have to say it is more likely that Labour is moving more towards FG

[Universal_001]

Taxation is theft !

You didn't just say that...