Freeze Public Sector Wages Until End of 2010 - Kenny

[Conor]

To suggest that the government might try to reign in the salary of the banker is unthinkable.

Without undermining your broader point, I think most people would welcome this. Or an updated version of this.

[Ronanr]

Interesting links Conor.

I wonder, if and when PS pay cuts are agreed, to what extent that will be followed by any attempts by the government to increase our international competitiveness by actively driving down private sector pay?

(I know that loads of private sector workers have LOST their jobs, but that does not help our international competitiveness if most of the ones that remain are paid at the same scale. is the idea to wait for inflation abroad to cause it?)

[culbair]

Some of the public Sector unions are just not clued in. I sit in staff room of teachers and my colleagues want to hold on to their incremental increases, their pay increases, etc, naturally, while probably four of their own younger colleagues are going to be let go. Its the 1980s all over again. We're all saying we didn't create the mess so we shouldn't be penalsied for it.
I tried pointing out that our Joe O Toole Benchmarking ATM increases were paid for from the now burst proeprty bubble, so indirectly we did contribute. The sullen and silent responses made me feel like a traitor and I think I got off light!

That public sector union official talked about the IMF having to come in if we do not take the bull by the horns is a rare breed, I'm actually beginning to think Cowan's strategy of getting the social partners behind him might just about be pulled off.

Enda Kenny has already back tracked by sticking to a pay freeze. He seems to be all over the place. Only a few weeks ago he was talking about anyone under 50,000 not getting their salary increments for seniority, that is effectively a pay cut. The fun is starting. Cowan is actually setting the agenda now. The Public sector unions are speaking with different voices, FG are rowing back, afraid of losing Labour, Those cute hoors of FFers you just gotta hand it to them.

Fine Gael has called for a pay freeze in the public sector, INCLUDING increments AND bonuses, until the end of 2010. Massive savings can be made on an increments freeze if applied to ALL public servants.
It says pay cuts should only apply to those earning over €100,000 a year.
The Government has been all over the place. Very hard decisions should have been taken in June 2008. Just look at the BOTCHED budget in October 2008. Look at the drift since October. No amount of spin about agendas changed the facts.
Finally if you think that the FG proposals are painless think again and do the sums. The saving from ALL these proposals according to FG is €1.5 billion. There are several approaches to cutting public sector expenditure. A party is perfectly entitled to change its approach to securing cuts if it can come up with more workable proposals.

No party has a monopoly of wisdom. Finally the buck stops with FF and Brian Cowen . They got us into this mess.
When did FF in opposition ever come up with workable proposals for public expenditure cuts. They generally went around inciting unions and interest groups to look for more and more.
RESPONSIBILITY rests with Cowen and FF not with the opposition. The Government must govern and cut public expenditure. I applaud FG and Labour. Both opposition parties have come up with various proposals in recent weeks. There is nothing to stop the government adopting some of the opposition proposals and coming up with more of its own. I wish it well in the national interest.

[west'sawake]

Fine Gael has called for a pay freeze in the public sector, INCLUDING increments AND bonuses, until the end of 2010. Massive savings can be made on an increments freeze if applied to ALL public servants.
It says pay cuts should only apply to those earning over €100,000 a year.
The Government has been all over the place. Very hard decisions should have been taken in June 2008. Just look at the BOTCHED budget in October 2008. Look at the drift since October. No amount of spin about agendas changed the facts.
Finally if you think that the FG proposals are painless think again and do the sums. The saving from ALL these proposals according to FG is €1.5 billion. There are several approaches to cutting public sector expenditure. A party is perfectly entitled to change its approach to securing cuts if it can come up with more workable proposals.

No party has a monopoly of wisdom. Finally the buck stops with FF and Brian Cowen . They got us into this mess.
When did FF in opposition ever come up with workable proposals for public expenditure cuts. They generally went around inciting unions and interest groups to look for more and more.
RESPONSIBILITY rests with Cowen and FF not with the opposition. The Government must govern and cut public expenditure. I applaud FG and Labour. Both opposition parties have come up with various proposals in recent weeks. There is nothing to stop the government adopting some of the opposition proposals and coming up with more of its own. I wish it well in the national interest.

You won't find me in disagreement with you on the dithering and failures of this Govt or the economic lunacy they pursued since 2000 and I have posted many times on that elsewhere. But, there is also the realpolitik of this situation, and that is where FG need to be careful. Don't ever ever underestimate FF strategic adaptability, nor the voting power of the Public Sector. FG cannot gain seats if it alienates them en masse regardless of the nobility and integrity of their policies. Remember there was an election after the Rainbow Govt when FG actually gained seats, the P.Ds lost, and yet FG lost power and the P.Ds gained it.

My fear is that the quarter of a million additional unemployed from the private sector will turn to the left, when it is left wing corporatism that has exaccerbated our situation, eroded our competitiveness and left us exposed to the international storms of the creidt cruch and the global downturn.

Public Sector pay cuts in real terms may be the necessary medicine, but will the voter go for it? If I can use the biblical quote FG would need to learn to be as wise as the serpent and as gentle as a dove. Look at the most recent opinion poll, Labour has shot up. The FG march has been ended. What if you end up stuck on 50-56 seats and labour have 25. SF and the Greens as comrades. Too far left for my liking.

Personally I would rather see a stronger FG than a resurgent Labour. I have many FF friends but I have not voted FF since the 90s. I fear then no matter what happens we are heading for yet another case of the tail wagging the dog. LIterally FG have to replace FF as the biggest party, I hope I'm wrong but I cannot see that happening.

FG needs to get the message to the unemployed why they have become unemployed. Otherwise Labour will mop up their disillusionment in the protest vote.

[Odyessus]

You won't find me in disagreement with you on the dithering and failures of this Govt or the economic lunacy they pursued since 2000 and I have posted many times on that elsewhere. But, there is also the realpolitik of this situation, and that is where FG need to be careful. Don't ever ever underestimate FF strategic adaptability, nor the voting power of the Public Sector. FG cannot gain seats if it alienates them en masse regardless of the nobility and integrity of their policies. Remember there was an election after the Rainbow Govt when FG actually gained seats, the P.Ds lost, and yet FG lost power and the P.Ds gained it.

My fear is that the quarter of a million additional unemployed from the private sector will turn to the left, when it is left wing corporatism that has exaccerbated our situation, eroded our competitiveness and left us exposed to the international storms of the creidt cruch and the global downturn.

Public Sector pay cuts in real terms may be the necessary medicine, but will the voter go for it? If I can use the biblical quote FG would need to learn to be as wise as the serpent and as gentle as a dove. Look at the most recent opinion poll, Labour has shot up. The FG march has been ended. What if you end up stuck on 50-56 seats and labour have 25. SF and the Greens as comrades. Too far left for my liking.

Personally I would rather see a stronger FG than a resurgent Labour. I have many FF friends but I have not voted FF since the 90s. I fear then no matter what happens we are heading for yet another case of the tail wagging the dog. LIterally FG have to replace FF as the biggest party, I hope I'm wrong but I cannot see that happening.

FG needs to get the message to the unemployed why they have become unemployed. Otherwise Labour will mop up their disillusionment in the protest vote.

You refer to the "economic lunacy" of the government since 2000. What polices do you think they should have adopted instead (specifically please) that would have left us in a better position today to weather the global economic storm?

[west'sawake]

You refer to the "economic lunacy" of the government since 2000. What polices do you think they should have adopted instead (specifically please) that would have left us in a better position today to weather the global economic storm?

Disincentives as opposed to incentives that boosted the property market and caused asset price and thus wage inflation and policies that would protect the trading sector by controlling inflation.

All this could have been done from 200o onwards when inflation was above the E.U. average and when FF and the Banks had an addiction and dependance on a creidt explosion, Teh govt getting a tax boost related to duties, Vat, Capital Gains, even income tax, but all a shallow tax base that could never last, but which was used to for fundthe Partnership and quango deals, deals now shown to be built on quicksand.

Speicifs that could have been done form 2000 on, or even before it.

a) Property tax especially on second properties or investment properties
b) Tighter regulation of the banking system. Banning 100% and 30 year mortgages
c) Anti inflationary budgets. Cuts in VAT
d) Forced selling of speculative holdings of land banks.
e) Ending the re xoning system.
F) Radical reform of the Public Sector. No benchmarking


Policies that would divert labour and capital resources from housing to infrastructure. The fact is we have an excessive housing supply. (EVen at the height of the boom and immigratnlaobur, 250,000 housing units were empty, smot of the year)

More selective public spending, better procurement, loss of tender or penatlies if budget is not met, etc.

Instead we got petrol being added to a fire that destroyed our competitiveness
in the form of: Unrestricted Credit to veyr cheap money (Low Euro central bank rates)
Excessive Fiscal stimulus in the fomr of Public current Govt consumption
Excessive Fiscal stimulation with a lowering of tax rates

It could have been avoided.

[Rebel CNC]

Heard Enda Kenny on Newstalk - extraordinarily poor performance - either (a) It was just an awkward and badly constructed bit of electioneering -short on substance or (b) more worryingly, he actually does not understand the magnitude of the numbers and the depth of crisis that FF have got us into. A paycut for those over €100k?? FFS!!

This will not inspire people thinking of giving FG a shot at the next election - the contrast with the assured and competent sounding Bruton, Hayes etc is huge!

Garrett Fitzgerald has opted for option (b) above in his Irish Times column today on the page following an excellent article by Richard Bruton - FG do need to shake Enda up or ditch him.