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Thread: Kenny tells FG to be ready for a General Election in 2009

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    Politics.ie Founder David Cochrane's Avatar
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    Kenny tells FG to be ready for a General Election in 2009

    Speaking tonight at the Fine Gael President's Dinner, party leader and president Enda Kenny TD told the 1,200 assembled party members and guests that Fine Gael should be ready for a General Election in 2009. Kenny also said that the current government has lost authority and that Fine Gael was ready to lead, and to make the tough decisions necessary to restore the country's economic growth.

    At the event Deputy Kenny announced he would be conducting a nationwide tour until the end of the year to include 30 public meetings organised by the party. The "town hall meetings" are expected to be an opportunity for members of the public to hear about FG's alternative plans for Ireland.

    Deputy Kenny's speech tonight follows a Sunday Business Post/REDC poll last Sunday which saw Fine Gael gain 5 points whilst Fianna Fáil dropped 10 points (here).

    Enda Kenny's speech in full is available below the fold.
    Last edited by David Cochrane; 1st November 2008 at 09:36 PM.
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    Speech by Fine Gael Leader, Enda Kenny TD at the Party's Presidential Dinner, Saturday, 1st November 2008, CityWest

    [FONT=Times] [FONT=Verdana]Putting Ireland First[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Distinguished Guests, Colleagues in the Parliamentary Party, Councillors and Candidates, Ladies and Gentlemen. I want to say a few words this evening about the state of our country, about politics and about Fine Gael's preparations to meet the challenges that lie ahead.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]As President of this great Party, I am proud to welcome you to this historic occasion. We are a party proud of our past and driven by the challenges of the future. It was our founders from 1923 who[/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana] established democracy in Ireland, at a time when democracy was disappearing from Europe. Those who led this party faced unique political difficulties, as democrats and nation builders as they set establishing the institutions of the newest state of the 20[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]th[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] century.[/FONT][/COLOR]

    [FONT=Verdana]We too live in turbulent and challenging times. Our challenges are different to those of our forefathers, but we do face huge issues as a country. It is my belief that Fine Gael now has the credibility and the competence to implement fair policies to bring this country through the crisis that we now find ourselves in.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]So tonight I want to talk about two sets of challenges and opportunities that need to be addressed:[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]The challenges and opportunities that we face as a country and how Fine Gael will address these in government, and,[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]The challenges and opportunities that we face as a party to get into government. To lead the next government we need to be the largest political party after the next election. And we will be.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]We know that there is a global crisis but we also know that because of the profligacy of this government, because of its failure to manage the economy in general and government spending in particular, Ireland is in a weakened position to deal with this global crisis.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I have lived through some bad governments but this surely must be the worst. This government is a shambles – out of touch and out of its depth. It has squandered the boom and delivered the worse fiscal performance of any government in the history of the State.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Look at what they have done. Ask yourself the following questions. Why in an economy of 50 billion euro does a government by deliberate action refuse to provide assistance for school books for traveller children and say that we cherish all the children of the nation equally? Is this their vision of a Just Society?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Why in an economy where 16 billion euro is spent on health do we have only four beds nationally for stroke victims and why are there no jobs this year for physiotherapists, speech and language and occupational therapists trained in Ireland but who now have to emigrate?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Why is it that we have slipped backwards in so many areas having had a decade of unprecedented growth and financial boom?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]The answers to these and many other questions are clear. Quite simply we have witnessed under Fianna Fail a monumental failure of governance. This has been of unprecedented proportions caused by reckless and incompetent political, civil and public service management failures. That is the reality. We have had the tribunals, Mahon Moriarty, McCracken, Morris, the scandals of Hamilton, Neary and so on. The governance systems failures were identified but never treated. We have witnessed a gross failure to deliver a high performing democratic system and public sector for which the taxpayer now pays and will pay.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Some of the most brilliant people I have met work in the public sector, many above and beyond the call of duty. Many others sit in frustration blocked by a system that does not allow for competition, reward for initiative or indeed real value for money.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]During the past decade many people felt that politics was irrelevant and did not really matter. The answer to all problems was more money, paid out of tax returns from a dangerously expanding housing sector with no thought for the future or its consequences. Now that we face an environment that has changed utterly both at home and abroad, people have begun to focus again on politics, what it means, the choices it offers and the measure of party credibility and competence put before the electorate.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]At the last election Fianna Fáil claimed that only they had the experience to run the country. It has been some experience since then.[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]Just imagine what good and competent government could have done with the resources that this government ended up with?[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Just imagine the achievements in so many areas that could have been made to happen?[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Just imagine the real improvements in the health services, and in education that could have set us up to really compete in an uncertain future?[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]The contrast with what the people were promised and what they got is so stark, so linked to utter incompetence. There has been a total lack of planning and no joined up thinking and no focus on the future. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]As a result, we stand amid the wreckage of great possibilities.[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]Houses being repossessed.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]P45s being handed out.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Unemployment rising rapidly.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Businesses folding[/FONT][FONT=Verdana].[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]All the indicators point to a continued sharp deterioration in the economy…[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]Unemployment has risen by over 100,000 since this Government came into power and is expected to exceed 300,000 next year (8% of the labour force)[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]The economy is expected to shrink by 1% this year and the same again next[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Banks are pulling back credit lines from viable businesses, causing unnecessary hardship and job losses[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Ireland is suffering much more than other countries…[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Ireland is the only country in Europe to have formally entered recession and it is expected to be deeper and longer here than in any other EU country. This is because the Irish economy was left uniquely exposed to the global crisis. Of any EU country, we had:[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]the biggest property boom[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]the biggest dependence on the construction sector for jobs[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]the highest level of personal debt and[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]the biggest loss of competitiveness.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]The economic principles that delivered the prosperity of the Celtic Tiger in the 1990s – keeping costs down, high productivity, export-led growth, tight budgeting and prudent regulation of the financial sector and housing market – were all abandoned by the previous Government, and most notably Brian Cowen as Minister for Finance. We urgently need to return to these principles. However, the recent Budget, which was billed as the Government's economic strategy, is anything but.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]The ill-thought out attacks on the low-paid and the vulnerable in our communities have been much discussed. We welcome the u-turns on many of these, but it leaves the country with a sense that nobody is in charge.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]There has been no strategic re-think of how Government delivers services efficiently and effectively, no forensic search for waste, no imaginative ideas about how to create jobs through new sources of competitive advantage for Ireland.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]The hurt caused by Brian Cowen's mismanagement is growing[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]And in the middle of a crisis, just when the country needs a coherent plan, we are subjected to government that doesn't know what it is doing hour by hour, let alone day by day.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Have you ever seen a budget that unravelled as quickly, not just in Ireland, but anywhere? Remember, this was their grand plan. Badly planned, poorly delivered and lacking any coherence or strategy. They have targeted the vulnerable and ducked the hard choices. This was a budget of desperation presented by a Cabinet that has lost its touch and now its moral authority to govern.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]That's the reality. The reality is that this government will be hallmarked forever by its failure to be ready, to be flexible and to have an agility to deal with a new future.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]In the Dail on Wednesday the Taoiseach said he wanted to be open and honest with the people.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Was his government open and honest when they repeated on many occasions prior to the budget that the old and the sick and the vulnerable would be protected and then proceeded to betray both trust and truth in their regard?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]On Thursday the Taoiseach said that objections to government decisions was not helpful. Did he expect the Fine Gael Party to applaud decisions to end the universal right to a medical card for over 70s given by his government in reward for those people's service to the state?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Did he expect a standing ovation to a budget that proposed to take from the pockets of the disadvantaged the small payments given heretofore at 16 years or to an indiscriminate, and as they called it a progressive, tax levy on all persons even those on the minimum wage?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]This party will continue to stand by this country, by our economy and by our people. Talk of a Tallaght Strategy is not relevant when this government has a majority. In fact the only consultation we have had was about the financial banking emergency which Fine Gael was happy to support in the country's interest subject to conditions that we could see being implemented for better regulation and to allow business to continue.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I want to make it absolutely clear tonight that the challenges that we are facing as a country are huge. We face tough times. We recognise that in our economic strategy. As far back as six years ago we said that a brilliant opportunity was missed to reform public services when 1 billion euro extra was paid on an annual basis without any return in increased efficiency or value for money.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]In July and again three weeks ago - before the budget - we proposed some tough and unpalatable measures to get the nation's finances back on an even keel:[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]A freeze on public sector pay for those earning over €50,000 a year. Not popular but justified in the circumstances. We also continue to advocate public sector reform.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]A higher cost to the banks on the insurance scheme.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]A freeze on current public expenditure.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Reform of aspects of health expenditure[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]A windfall tax on power generators.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]A redundancy programme for public servants.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Further examples of the type of public service reforms that Fine Gael wants……[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]hospitals should be paid for what they do this year, not what they spent last year – why should it not be the case that hospitals get more money if they treat more patients, rather than closing down wards and cancelling operations when they run short of cash[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]dubious capital projects be subject to published cost-benefit evaluations, avoiding the massive waste associated with projects like PPARS and eVoting[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Contracts with public servants should be changed so that there is much more flexibility to move staff to new priority areas, and to close down or merge agencies that have served their purpose or are not delivering[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Give new powers to the Comptroller and Auditor General to improve the governance and financial management of agencies in order to root out waste and inefficiency in the public sector[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Now that the unsustainable construction boom has come to a shuddering halt, we've also set out ideas to expand employment in new areas of opportunity:[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]Break down the barriers to "green collar" employment – skilled jobs in renewable energy and energy saving technologies[/FONT]
      • [FONT=Verdana]Opening up the electricity grid to renewables[/FONT]
      • [FONT=Verdana]Retraining construction workers in areas like home insulation, smart electricity appliances, energy certification[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]Better access to training – change the criteria for the Back to Education Allowance so that you don't have to spend 12 months on the dole before becoming eligible[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Cut red-tape on small businesses and give tax breaks for investments in training and research[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]Get guarantees from the banks that they will restore credit lines to business in return for any bail-out[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Unlike the government we have stuck to our policies. Because they are coherent and will work.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]The economy is in bad shape. And it's going to get worse. Years of economic mismanagement have taken their toll. It will take a long time to recover.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]But recover we must and recover we will.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Our choice[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]So we are offering the people a choice.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]A clear unambiguous choice.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We are offering coherence and leadership to the country. We are preparing for and prepared for government[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]That is Fine Gael's purpose.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We can absolutely do that.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We were never in better shape to do it.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We have developed a robust, credible and alternative plan and our Finance Spokesman, Richard Bruton, could spend the rest of his career saying I told you so.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We called it right on benchmarking, but they didn't want to know. We called it right on waste, but they did not want to know. We called it right on growing public expenditure, but they didn't want to know. We called it right on the need to reform the public sector, and they still don't want to know.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I am privileged to lead an unmatched parliamentary party.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]They are argumentative and diligent and absolutely committed to their task.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]That's what we needed. That's what we now have.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Men and women at every stage in the age and experience spectrum, united in determination to be in Government and to serve this country as it should be served.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Fine Gael has always put the country first. No Fine Gael leader can ever be said to have shirked unpopular decisions. I never saw a Cosgrave or Costello, a Fitzgerald, a Bruton or a Dukes ever courting popularity over the national interest.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]We have the experience.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]We have the expertise.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]We have the ambition and the hunger to tackle the task but to tackle it in a tough but fair way.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Above all – [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]above all, my friends – [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]we have the people. We also have the assistance of 2,000 new members who joined Young Fine Gael last month making us the fastest growing party in the land.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]It has been 18 months since the last general election. The way this government is imploding, the next may well happen inside the next 12 months.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]So let me talk about the challenges that face us as a party.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Here's the starting point. Go back to 2002. After that defeat, we were written off as a party and as an electoral force. Some even said the last rites were being applied.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]After last Sunday they're not writing us off now![/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Let me reflect on the successes that we have already had since I became leader in 2002.[/FONT]

    • [FONT=Verdana]We had our best results in the local elections of 2004.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]We won the European election in 2004.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]We had a stunning victory in the Meath by election.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]We gained 20 seats in the general election of 2007 which included 6 being taken back from the Progressive Democrats.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana]And all of these achievements happened against the perceived invincibility of former Taoiseach Ahern.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana]Each of these challenges was met with ambition, preparation and effective implementation. It was the people in this room, the candidates, the wider party and our supporters who demonstrated that we are the party for the long haul.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We in Fine Gael always need to be prepared and be ready.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We don't know when the next General Election will be but we do know that the local and European elections will be in June. These are all crucial elections for the country and our party.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We are putting together a winter campaign which will hammer home the fact that the Government is making the people pay for a crisis caused by the Government. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]As part of that winter campaign, I am taking to the road to meet voters at town hall meetings the length and breadth of Ireland through November and December – to highlight the most realistic approach to solving the crisis that the country finds itself in.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]At our conference in Wexford in three weeks' time, we will promote some new ideas. We will highlight our local election candidates – some who have been in party for many years, and some who have just joined us. They choose to stand for us because they know that we have the policies, the energy and the commitment to lead the next government.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Elections are not won by chance. The fundamental core of a political party is the organisation at local level.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]It is about the 300 councillors and 400 other candidates who will stand for our party, for our principles and our policies in June. They are already working hard in the field.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]It is about our five MEPs who have served this country well in Europe. Our candidates at local and European are canvassing for votes up and down this country. From Malin to Mizen, you need to go with them. You need to get behind their effort to get elected.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]It's not just about the candidate, it is about the team. Please be part of that team. Please be an [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]active [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]part of that team. Don't wait for them to call you – you call them and get involved early.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]This is where our ambitions for the party fuse with our ambitions for the country. We will be in government only after we realise our electoral ambitions.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Conclusion[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]We need a new politics for this new era.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]A politics of passion and energy and openness.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]A politics that champions change.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]A politics that believes better, brighter days are ahead.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]And they are.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]This country yearns for that kind of politics. For a Party that works on its founding principles of trust and truth, of putting people before Party and country before power.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]For a Government that is fearless, led by a Fine Gael that believes in itself, believes in its unique strengths, believes in teamwork and is ready to prove to the nation that Ireland has a great future.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]I recognise the ultimate political challenge that I face up ahead, that of preparing and leading Fine Gael into government. I accept that challenge and I look forward with optimism and courage to making it become a reality.[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
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  3. #3
    Politics.ie Regular
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    Fair play Enda
    Economic Left/Right: 0.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

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    Politics.ie Royalty toxic avenger's Avatar
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    And so the cycle will continue, if Kenny gets his wish. Profligacy and irresponsibility by FF administrations, subsequent economic crisis, FG coalition gets power, FG coalition has to take drastic measures, FG gets thrown out for unpopular recession Government, FF, remembered as party of good times, gets back in...

    Talk about 'useful idiots'...

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    Politics.ie Member CookieMonster's Avatar
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    At least he's talking sense.
    A poster of some consequence...

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member katy brock's Avatar
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    Damn good speech but "Inda" is preaching to the converted. We all know the mess our little nation is in and who is getting the blame for it.

    The trouble is, Kenny doesn't know how to get us out of this fix (IMHO-neither does anyone else) and would be better served watching FF implode for a couple of years while FG and co. come up with something solid.

    Good speech, but just a load of blather at the end of the day. Why would a sane person want to preside over this mess?

    Let Cowen and his simpering pack of sycophants do it until their will and arrogance are broken!

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Worry ourselves in to an election?

    Now that we the "great unwashed"talked ourselves into a recession( by continually talking down the economy when FF knew everything was hunky dory) is it possible we can talk ourselves in to an election?
    Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes.
    Jim Carrey.

  8. #8
    SPN
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    All in all a good speech.

    There are a couple of things I'd take issue with, but it would just be nit picking.

    Great to see him look back to the Blueshirt heritage, and the way that democracy in Ireland was guaranteed by those brave volunteers who stood up to Dev and his IRA thugs.


    The only down side is the complete omission of referance to the Elephant in the room: Enda can do jack diddly without Eamon Gilmore's permission.

    Can you really see Labour Backbenchers agreeing to such an aggressive (and necessary) strategy?


    We are currently looking at situation where it is likely that the IMF will be taking over the running of the Country in 2010 - a scenario which will make the PDs look like Mother Teresa - unless some tough decisions are made in short order.

    Whilst Fine Gael have proven in the past that they will do what it takes to prevent this unprecedented state of affairs coming to pass, history has shown that the only practicable way to do it is with the FFailures at the helm, and Fine Gael sitting in Tallaght.


    How do we get to a situation whereby Joe & Josephine Public elect a Government that can comprise grown ups as the main Party, and grown ups as the secondary Party, in a solid, progressive, Coalition?


    ..
    .
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

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  9. #9
    Politics.ie Regular droghedasouth's Avatar
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    Don't worry about Labour.

    If the go-it-alone brigade get their way (disguised as get the best deal for working class voters after the election), Labour will be squeezed into blivion by a FG vote-for-us-as-the-only-party-guaranteeing-to-put-incompetent-fathers-of-the slump-FF out of government. FG could end up with Garret FitzG. like numbers a few TD's ahead of FF.

    If Labour follow the policy of being willing to take tough decisions while defending the the weak and the disadvantaged then it is a win-win for FG and Labour.

    For once, all the strategic electoral cards are in the FG hand.
    There are times when you are simply required to be impolite. There are times when condescension is called for!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    At least he's talking sense.
    damn straight he is, good to see him and FG fired up and willing to take on FF at every oppertunity. If this country is to have some hope of getting through the recession / depression then we need people & leaders like FG and not the bumbling wasters that are FF

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