FG Front Bench Stronger than Cabinet

[Rocky]

Fair enough Hank, and fwiw I think you are one of the more rational FG posters.
But just because someone was classically educated or attained spectacular academic qualifications does not make them inherently more suited to run a government department - as Garrett Fitz and John Bruton realised in the case of Shatter.
The mental institutions of this country are full of geniuses!

I think that's unfair on Shatter. He was only elected in 81, so it would have been a great achievement had he been in a Minister under Garret. I know others were, but that was a great achievement. In 94 he had just recently been kicked off the front bench for breaking the party whip and that had to hurt his chances of becoming a Minister.

[The Earl of Desmond]

1. Ireland has quite good public services, just not as good as they could be or as we’d like them to be.
2. You are living in your own dream world if you really believe that the boom has been squandered.
3. FG were unlucky once? maybe, twice? hardly, three times? no chance.
4. The rainbow wasn’t in long enough to be “bad” or “good”
5. Err no, everyone doesn’t agree that Fitz was good and as for Cosgrave, unlucky again? get a grip now.
6. It is a fact that no FG Government has ever been re-elected, now you either think that they were just “unlucky” as you appear to be happy with or more realistically you have to think there is something more to it than bad luck.
7. If you don’t understand why it’s much more difficult to get an overall majority now than it was pre the PD’s, you should take up some other interest.

The rest of your post is too stupid to pass comment on, except to say and just to show what a bigoted thick you are, I’ll point out that FG’s history of involvement with the tribunals is lamentable, from party leader, denying twice, but admitting the truth on the third occasion, to “missing cheques” from donation lists, to FG being the ONLY party who are guilty of tax evasion.
Your attitude to FF supporters, in terms of respecting other views is a disgrace and an affront, not just to FF, but to all decent FG supporters.[/quote]

To be getting a lesson on morals from Tonys - the guy who made even Mansergh defence of Ahern look understated! FFers are crooks - its plain and simple. Black and white. Right and wrong. I know the difference you don't. Simple as. End of. You went above and beyond the call of duty supporting Ahern. The man proven to have lied or do you still think all 3 versions of what he claims are the truth are the truth? The PDs made no difference to FF getting overall majorities - all the PDs have done is keep FG out of government. Even when you add back the PD TDs like Harney and Grealish FF are still short.

[Barbarian]

I think that's unfair on Shatter. He was only elected in 81, so it would have been a great achievement had he been in a Minister under Garret.

But sure if he is the leading family law practitioner in the country...why not?
As I'm sure you are aware there was more than political inexperience holding Shatter back from getting any job under Fitzgerald...this is something Shatter has spoken on in the past and he hasn't held back in criticising Garrett for failing to recognise his brilliance.

In 94 he had just recently been kicked off the front bench for breaking the party whip and that had to hurt his chances of becoming a Minister.

Breaking the party whip on hare coursing was hardly a capital offence, Bruton was more interested in teaching a serial backstabber a lesson.

[joemomma]

Enda Kenny, teacher, Richard Bruton, an Oxford educated economist, Alan Shatter, Irelands' leading family solicitor, Dr. James Reilly, physician, Dr. Leo Varadkar, physician. These people have the credentials to give them a run for their money.

Being a teacher or a physician is not exactly a qualification for running the country, is it?

I think James O'Reilly is highly impressive, and I rate Richard Bruton also. I can't think of anybody else on the FG front bench I'd let near a government ministry if it were up to me. Can you really imagine Phil Hogan in charge of the nation's environment?

On the FF side I think I'd have to acknowledge Brian Lenihan and, um, that's about it really. Brian Cowen's reputation seems hilariously overblown to me.

Of course, these parlour games are only necessary when your two largest parties are so indistinguishable on matters of policy.

[The Earl of Desmond]

Enda Kenny, teacher, Richard Bruton, an Oxford educated economist, Alan Shatter, Irelands' leading family solicitor, Dr. James Reilly, physician, Dr. Leo Varadkar, physician. These people have the credentials to give them a run for their money.

Being a teacher or a physician is not exactly a qualification for running the country, is it?

I think James O'Reilly is highly impressive, and I rate Richard Bruton also. I can't think of anybody else on the FG front bench I'd let near a government ministry if it were up to me. Can you really imagine Phil Hogan in charge of the nation's environment?

On the FF side I think I'd have to acknowledge Brian Lenihan and, um, that's about it really. Brian Cowen's reputation seems hilariously overblown to me.

Of course, these parlour games are only necessary when your two largest parties are so indistinguishable on matters of policy.

Lenihan was barely qualified as a barrister so he's hardly got experience of running anything either. Also not a single member of the Labout cabinet in 97 had any experience and they coped fine. The sky didn't fall in.

[joemomma]

Lenihan was barely qualified as a barrister so he's hardly got experience of running anything either. Also not a single member of the Labout cabinet in 97 had any experience and they coped fine. The sky didn't fall in.

You make my point for me. What they achieved before politics is more or less irrelevant.

[baldur0300]

Lenihan was barely qualified as a barrister so he's hardly got experience of running anything either. Also not a single member of the Labout cabinet in 97 had any experience and they coped fine. The sky didn't fall in.

I do enjoy the fact that you need to demonstrate your stupidity on a daily basis, Brian Lenihan is a senior counsel.

[fiannafuddy]

That's a separate issue to what FG or FF do once in gov. No FG gov would have squandered 2 booms like FF did but somehow FF manage to pass the blame to FG. FF ruined the 80s with their 77 manifesto but FG got the blame and now FF have totally wasted the biggest boom we are ever likely to have and are trying to pass the buck again.

What I find hard to grasp is why FG let FF away with it time and again.

1. What conclusive proof have you got.
2. you assume that to be correct in the first place which is heavily debatable.

[Supermanpolitician]

That's a separate issue to what FG or FF do once in gov. No FG gov would have squandered 2 booms like FF did but somehow FF manage to pass the blame to FG. FF ruined the 80s with their 77 manifesto but FG got the blame and now FF have totally wasted the biggest boom we are ever likely to have and are trying to pass the buck again.

What I find hard to grasp is why FG let FF away with it time and again.

1. What conclusive proof have you got.
2. you assume that to be correct in the first place which is heavily debatable.

"I spent most of it on booze and women...and squandared the rest" - George Best
"We spent most of it on E-Voting / PPars / Tribunals to show disclosure until we got found out then called them a waste of money / The M50 / The M50 again / Bertie's makeup...and we squandered what was left" - Fianna Fail.

[Kerry South]

And the bench is still stronger today. Fine Gael are moving from strength to strength. Kenny has been the best pleader this country has ever had and I admire the Front bench team we have. With Gods grace I know they can go on to bring better things to Ireland.