Fine Gael: frontbench and top talent assessment

[Rebel_Yell]

I've lost all faith in them to achieve anything other than abject collapse..

For a government with the majority and mandate of theirs to be afraid of making any of the tough or imaginative decisions that are required beggars belief..

Where the hell is the reform of the Oireachtas that was supposed to happen? The HSE etc etc

It's hard to know where to go with politics and politicians in Ireland at this stage...

All just populist liars and hypocrites with no ideals..

Just look at Britain, agree with them or not, but the Tories have always had the conviction of their ideals while we just have a Dail full of ineffective lib dems

An absence of ideology and an overwhelming fear of causing offense is what really and truly got us to where we are today. Forget Ahern and Cowen as individuals. When you break it down, we have been governed by people who in the absence of an ideology or plan, governed by populism.

Now we have a government who seem intent on the same approach. I blame Labour more than FG for this but the fact is they are in it together.

We desperately need a discussion of ideology and direction in this country.

[Bren Boru]

Let's face it not one bit of that had to do with government policy. That was about agreeing and implementing a plan created by the last crew. To avoid giving that shower any credit, let's leave that one where it is and move on.

What has the FG-Lab coalition done that has been an improvement over what would have happened under the last inept, feckless government?

They have burned junior bondholders to the tune of €5bn with possibly more to come.
They have improved on the terms of the "bailout" by way of interest rate and time period.
They are bringing their own costs somewhat under control by way of reduced ministerial pay, pensions etc (I know more could be done here and I hope it is)

They have been a Government which is more than can be said for the last bunch.

Without delving too much into personality stuff, when I see archive clips of Dev Og, Pat Carey, Mary Coughlan etc sitting on the front bench it makes me despair. Like 'em or not, I think we now have a semi professional front bench. If only their hands weren't tied... if only....

[Rebel_Yell]

They have burned junior bondholders to the tune of €5bn with possibly more to come.

Hmm, would Linehan have done the same in time, dunno. I suspect that this like a number of other things in relation to the bailout are time dependent and would have happened anyway. It's an inch by inch thing and independent of leadership

They have improved on the terms of the "bailout" by way of interest rate and time period.

Nothing to do with them. Would have happened if we had elected Joe Higgins in March.

They are bringing their own costs somewhat under control by way of reduced ministerial pay, pensions etc (I know more could be done here and I hope it is)

Tokenism and typical of the stuff I am talking about. It's welcome but isn't getting at the core of the issue. If they were addressing the pension issue or even planning to, that would be one thing but these pensions (as welcome as the changes are) are a distraction nothing more, intended to take our attention off the fact that we still have a massive PS pension crisis on the way.

They have been a Government which is more than can be said for the last bunch.

Without delving too much into personality stuff, when I see archive clips of Dev Og, Pat Carey, Mary Coughlan etc sitting on the front bench it makes me despair. Like 'em or not, I think we now have a semi professional front bench. If only their hands weren't tied... if only....

Wouldn't have been a fan of that lot either but being someone other than the last crew is not what I elected. I voted for governance not seat warmers with a more pleasant aesthetic than the last crew.

Semi-professional is about the size of it. Half of the league of Ireland is semi-professional. League of Ireland players on Premiership salaries.

[Florance]

Ireland has regained its reputation in Europe.
For me, that's a massive achievement in 9 months.

I know the hordes will disagree with me, but that's fine.

Our Reputation is of good boys who will do what they are told, not sure this is a great reputation.

[Bren Boru]

Our Reputation is of good boys who will do what they are told, not sure this is a great reputation.

I'm not sure its ideal. But it's a necessary start.

[Thin Priest]

With the exception of periods leading up to General Elections, can anyone think of any examples of strident, policy-based opposition provided by FG or Labour during the last 10 or so years?

I certainly can't and have repeated that accusation to local TDs from both parties on numerous occasions.

What policies they came up with for the last election have largely been ignored or abandoned, under the persistent mantra of "what FF did to the Country" - as if they only found out on taking office. Come to think of it, perhaps they did. They certainly were not doing what they were supposed to (and being paid for) as opposition.

This is a scary government. Scary for many reasons.

They talk of making the 'hard' decisions when in fact all they are doing is cowardly accepting the decisions made by the French and Germans.

The REAL hard decisions would be to stay true to their commitments to the electorate and to stand up to Merkozy. We had a government of traitors, we have replaced it with one of cowards.

Listening to Lucinda Creighton last evening (PT) and Emmett Stagg on MI today is scary. They are so far embedded in Merkozy doctrine it makes me wonder - are we all just collateral damage in the Franco-German Master Plan? Are our government the new Collaborators in a financial holocaust?

Howlin, Shatter, Gilmore, Noonan - what are any of them doing to address the abandonment of the needs of the IRISH people? What has happened to their Constitutional responsibility of care for every individual?

And Kenny???

Oh Dear ! Oh Dear ! This country is BANKRUPT ! In deficit funding to the tune of 20 billion per year.

We are being bailed out basically by the stronger countries....sure we should puff out our collective chests and say to Merkozy."We don't want your ould Euros...we have made a total boll0x of our country through greed and corruption over the past 12 years and we insist on the right to continue our gombeen political way of life".

How will we pay our debts/public services/fund our banks ? Erm.....uh.....do we have to do that ?

Give me without equivocation 4 - just four hard decisions that you would take that this "cowardly" government havn't ?

Total bulldust pal.......

[Lassie]

It's just your jive talkin'

you're telling me lies, yeah

Jive talkin'

you wear a disguise


Jive talkin'

so misunderstood, yeah

Jive talkin'

You really no good

[CarnivalOfAction]

Our Reputation is of good boys who will do what they are told, not sure this is a great reputation.

FG & FG-lite are classic bullies: kick the small, weak guy around but grovel b4 their masters. They did the same in the 70s when they asked "how much?" when these murderers demanded more collaboration:

RUC collusion in Miami Showband attack - RT News

"According to relatives, who published part of the HET report, it concluded that it was likely that one of the murderers was an RUC special branch agent and his involvement was covered up. "

Brian McCoy, hit nine times by machine gun fire, was the first to die. Tony Geraghty was shot four times in the back. Lying helpless on the ground, band frontman Fran O'Toole died after being shot in the face twenty two times.

One of the soldiers waded though the aftermath of the explosion kicking at bodies to ensure that they were all dead. Seriously wounded, traumatised and terrified, Stephen decided to lie still and pretend to be dead as the Soldier approached. Luckily for Stephen, just as he came near him, one of the other soldiers shouted that "those bastards are dead. I got them with dum-dums". The soldiers then departed the scene, and despite suffering horrific injuries Stephen survived the attack.

Among the other UDR soldiers involved in the massacre were James Somerville, a brother of Wesley who was killed in the blast, as well as Thomas Crozier and Rodney McDowell. These men, along with a host of other RUC and UDR men were all part of what was known as the 'Glenane gang', a notorious UVF unit operating in the Mid-Ulster area in the mid 1970's and responsible for countless other sectarian atrocities in the area and across the border.

That unit, led by Robin Jackson (known as 'the Jackal) , were involved in a bomb attack in Dundalk in 1975 that resulted in two deaths and dozens of injuries and the Dublin/Monaghan bombings that killed 33 people and injured more than one hundred. The weapon used to kill Brian McCoy was the same weapon used in the assassination of IRA volunteer and Long Kesh escapee John Francis Green six months beforehand in county Monaghan.

According to a number of former British army Intelligence operatives, Robert Nairac a member of the British Militarys undercover 14th Intelligence company, was working with the 'Glenane gang' and was involved in the planning and carrying out of the John Francis Green assassination as well as the Miami Showband massacre.

The political establishments on both sides of the border may be willing to dismiss the Miami Showband massacre and other atrocities such as the Dublin/Monaghan bombings as the actions of "rogue" soldiers, RUC men or Intelligence operatives. However, the evidence, the refusal of the British government to come clean and co-operate with the Barron inquiry into the Dublin/Monaghan attacks and the record of British military involvement in Ireland shows otherwise.

The history of the British army in our country has been a shameful and bloody one. Both directly, and indirectly through collusion with their allies in the loyalist death squads,the British security forces have consistently engaged in terrorising the nationalist community and those who opposed the British occupation of Ireland by whatever means necessary, including mass murder.

Collusion has been central to Britain's policy of maintaing their occupation of Ireland. Since the foundation of the 6-county state, nationalists and republicans throughout the six counties have lived with the reality of the British state actively assisting Loyalist death squads. The list of victims of British collusion is lengthy and includes Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, Sam Marshall and Eddie Fullerton to name just a few.

All attempts to establish the truth about collusion between the British occupying forces and the loyalist death squads has been hampered and blocked by the British state. They refuse to reveal their full role in atrocities such as the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and continue to deny the truth and justice that the victims' families deserve.

[NewDawn1]

FG & FG-lite are classic bullies: kick the small, weak guy around but grovel b4 their masters. They did the same in the 70s when they asked "how much?" when these murderers demanded more collaboration:

RUC collusion in Miami Showband attack - RT News

"According to relatives, who published part of the HET report, it concluded that it was likely that one of the murderers was an RUC special branch agent and his involvement was covered up. "

Brian McCoy, hit nine times by machine gun fire, was the first to die. Tony Geraghty was shot four times in the back. Lying helpless on the ground, band frontman Fran O'Toole died after being shot in the face twenty two times.

One of the soldiers waded though the aftermath of the explosion kicking at bodies to ensure that they were all dead. Seriously wounded, traumatised and terrified, Stephen decided to lie still and pretend to be dead as the Soldier approached. Luckily for Stephen, just as he came near him, one of the other soldiers shouted that "those bastards are dead. I got them with dum-dums". The soldiers then departed the scene, and despite suffering horrific injuries Stephen survived the attack.

Among the other UDR soldiers involved in the massacre were James Somerville, a brother of Wesley who was killed in the blast, as well as Thomas Crozier and Rodney McDowell. These men, along with a host of other RUC and UDR men were all part of what was known as the 'Glenane gang', a notorious UVF unit operating in the Mid-Ulster area in the mid 1970's and responsible for countless other sectarian atrocities in the area and across the border.

That unit, led by Robin Jackson (known as 'the Jackal) , were involved in a bomb attack in Dundalk in 1975 that resulted in two deaths and dozens of injuries and the Dublin/Monaghan bombings that killed 33 people and injured more than one hundred. The weapon used to kill Brian McCoy was the same weapon used in the assassination of IRA volunteer and Long Kesh escapee John Francis Green six months beforehand in county Monaghan.

According to a number of former British army Intelligence operatives, Robert Nairac a member of the British Militarys undercover 14th Intelligence company, was working with the 'Glenane gang' and was involved in the planning and carrying out of the John Francis Green assassination as well as the Miami Showband massacre.

The political establishments on both sides of the border may be willing to dismiss the Miami Showband massacre and other atrocities such as the Dublin/Monaghan bombings as the actions of "rogue" soldiers, RUC men or Intelligence operatives. However, the evidence, the refusal of the British government to come clean and co-operate with the Barron inquiry into the Dublin/Monaghan attacks and the record of British military involvement in Ireland shows otherwise.

The history of the British army in our country has been a shameful and bloody one. Both directly, and indirectly through collusion with their allies in the loyalist death squads,the British security forces have consistently engaged in terrorising the nationalist community and those who opposed the British occupation of Ireland by whatever means necessary, including mass murder.

Collusion has been central to Britain's policy of maintaing their occupation of Ireland. Since the foundation of the 6-county state, nationalists and republicans throughout the six counties have lived with the reality of the British state actively assisting Loyalist death squads. The list of victims of British collusion is lengthy and includes Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, Sam Marshall and Eddie Fullerton to name just a few.

All attempts to establish the truth about collusion between the British occupying forces and the loyalist death squads has been hampered and blocked by the British state. They refuse to reveal their full role in atrocities such as the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and continue to deny the truth and justice that the victims' families deserve.

what?

[CarnivalOfAction]

what?

Wouldn't expect you to have heard about such collusion under our Section 31 censorship regime; read the link & learn.