Fine Gael Propose a Constitution Day and a "New Republic"

[Catalpa]

I've been saying this for ages, that FG should be far more radical than they have been so far. Looks like they've grabbed the bull by the horns. They've elaborated in their 20 TD/Seanad constitutional referendum within a year by saying now that they will hold 5 referendums on the same day with the aim of creating a "New Republic" in what would be the biggest constitutional overhaul "since the 1930's".
They have also called for the replacement of the social partnership scheme which they say is a jobs for the boys gig for insiders.

Full story in today's Irish Times:
FG proposes referendum on five key political reforms - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 13, 2010

The full list of referendums:

- the abolition of the Seanad;

- a new “list” system for selecting 15 TDs;

- new constitutional recognition given to four Dáil committees;

- reduction of the President’s term of office from seven years to five;

- the introduction of a public petition mechanism for the Dáil.

They also want to reverse the Abbylara decision and have a referendum on reducing judges pay.

I think that this really has the potential to put clear blue water between FG and the other parties and will form the basis of the time for change/we can't let this happen again (and here's how) election campaign. I have felt since about December 2009 that FG have been too conservative in tackling the failure of the institutions of the state. I am a lot happier having read this.

Good ideas on the face of it except for the Seanad one - it should be reformed not abolished.

The number of TDs elected (appointed?) under the List system should be higher IMO.

It certainly could be used to allow politicians from the North to enter Leinster House by constitutional means.

More powerful committees are worth looking into but one would want to thread carefully re the division of powers between politics and the Law.

One term President elected by popular mandate - I presume there would have to be a provision for a 'vice president' or such like to allow for the death, incapacitation or resignation of the holder of the Office during their term?

Public petitions - a good idea (I presume this is Lucinda's handiwork?) but it would have to be filled out a more to work in practise.

Judges pay - that should prove popular!

How about the Judges being elected and removed by the People if they don't shape up?

I would love to see that one!

[jackryan]

I might not agree with everything but fair dues to FG anyone who doesn't think the present system needs changing needs their head examined!!

[Simbo67]

Hopefully this kicks off a debate in other parties. I think that one of the things the next election has to be about is where are we going as a country and what sort of protections we need to stop what has happened over the last 7 years or so happening again.
Social partnership became jobs for the boys
The Dail stopped working (and probably never did) hence the proposal for a strong committee system from FG
The Seanad? Pff, what is it for? If we are going to have room for great thinkers who wouldnt normally be part of the cut and thrust of getting elected then lets have the list system

I would also love to see a system of independent appointees rather than political ones. I think that if/when FG get into power they have to reform/establish institutions so that they can't be tinkered with and corrupted when they are not in power. It mightnt be the best for FG in the short run but it means that there is some independence and oversight of the parties in power. These proposals in my view are only the start. Or they should be. It's a good start.

[Finbar10]

I've been saying this for ages, that FG should be far more radical than they have been so far. Looks like they've grabbed the bull by the horns. They've elaborated in their 20 TD/Seanad constitutional referendum within a year by saying now that they will hold 5 referendums on the same day with the aim of creating a "New Republic" in what would be the biggest constitutional overhaul "since the 1930's".
They have also called for the replacement of the social partnership scheme which they say is a jobs for the boys gig for insiders.

Full story in today's Irish Times:
FG proposes referendum on five key political reforms - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 13, 2010

The full list of referendums:

- the abolition of the Seanad;

- a new “list” system for selecting 15 TDs;

- new constitutional recognition given to four Dáil committees;

- reduction of the President’s term of office from seven years to five;

- the introduction of a public petition mechanism for the Dáil.

They also want to reverse the Abbylara decision and have a referendum on reducing judges pay.

I think that this really has the potential to put clear blue water between FG and the other parties and will form the basis of the time for change/we can't let this happen again (and here's how) election campaign. I have felt since about December 2009 that FG have been too conservative in tackling the failure of the institutions of the state. I am a lot happier having read this.

Constitutional recognition to the Dáil committees seems reasonable if unexciting. But on the the whole these proposals seem poorly thought out and rather cosmetic in nature. Donal O Brolachain has previously written a number of well thought out articles on constitutional reform. These can be found here. His proposals would be far more radical than what Fine Gael is offering, including reform of local government, greater separation between executive and legislative arms of government, a citizen's initiative mechanism and changes to the voting system. I wouldn't agree with everything in these articles. They're definitely worth a read though.

On Fine Gael's proposals:
- the abolition of the Seanad;

Compared to the money being wasted elsewhere the cost of this isn't all that big. I'd prefer to see a radically reformed second chamber. But can't say I'd lose much sleep over whether it stays or goes. A populist political stunt.

- a new “list” system for selecting 15 TDs;

There could well be some merit in this proposal. A small number of TDs selected via this system might not be a bad thing. But list voting systems tend to focus more power in political parties. They already have too much power in this country.

- new constitutional recognition given to four Dáil committees;

Sensible but unexciting.

- reduction of the President’s term of office from seven years to five;

What's the point? Might be worth doing if there was a simultaneous radical reform of the president's role and powers. Cutting the term of a figurehead from 7 to 5 years, why bother?

- the introduction of a public petition mechanism for the Dáil.

Another half-arsed proposal. Sounds similar to the 1 million mechanism signature in Lisbon. Better than nothing I suppose. Seems to be giving citizens' more say but likely a mechanism with no real teeth in practice. I'd be a fan of putting a proper citizen's initiative into the constitution, but with lots of safeguards such as:

• 100,000 signatures needed: would be best to keep threshold fairly high
• 2 year delay: government would only be obliged to hold a referendum on proposal within two years of proposal, would ensure short term whims of electorate don't drive this process
• a minimum 25% turnout
• Dáil with limited initiative veto: give the Dáil limited veto powers over such proposals: e.g. a 2/3 majority in the Dáil could veto such a proposal unless more the referendum itself was carried with more than 2/3 majority.

Another thing that I'd like to see constitutional reform on is the political nature of senior Garda appointments. We'll almost never see Garda investigations into politicians' expenses etc. as has happened in the UK because senior Gardaí are appointed by and beholden to our politicians. I'd prefer to see all Garda appointments being made by a separate directly elected political entity, perhaps some kind of directly elected policing board.

Similar arguments could be made for the judiciary and the army. The judiciary is a tricky one though. The current system works ok despite its flaws I think. Probably should only be tinkered with with great care.

[factual]

The list system-might that benefit SF?

[TommyO'Brien]

Good ideas on the face of it except for the Seanad one - it should be reformed not abolished.

Unfortunately the Seanad is so bad that it is effectively irredeemable.

You should look at its weekly timetable, Cat. It is horrifying. They start on Tuesday with the order of business when they discuss Liveline. On a good week they might have a single bill to process. The rest of the time is taken up with "statements", which in effect are 'talk about . . .' sessions in the House spends its time talking about nothing in particular to fill up time, with no-one paying the slightest heed. Then by early Thursday, sometimes Wednesday, it finishes up.

Comparing it to other upper houses is depressing. The Bundesrat, the French Senate, the House of Lords etc do real work and the members earn their money. In Ireland the Seanad is largely irrelevant, does next to nothing, has to pad out its schedule to find things to talk about, and yet costs a bomb. It is beyond fixing, and I say that as a one-time respecter of it. But when you actually look at it you end up embarrassed at just how appalling it is.

[TradCat]

The Seanad will never be reformed in such a way as to make it a threat to the government. Nor should it be We elect the government to govern. Therefore it will always be superfluous no matter what reforms are introduced. It has to go.

[Sailor]

Could anybody explain how this collection of gimmicks could, by any stretch of the imagination, be regarded as meriting the title "New Republic"

[jackryan]

Unfortunately the Seanad is so bad that it is effectively irredeemable.

You should look at its weekly timetable, Cat. It is horrifying. They start on Tuesday with the order of business when they discuss Liveline. On a good week they might have a single bill to process. The rest of the time is taken up with "statements", which in effect are 'talk about . . .' sessions in the House spends its time talking about nothing in particular to fill up time, with no-one paying the slightest heed. Then by early Thursday, sometimes Wednesday, it finishes up.

Comparing it to other upper houses is depressing. The Bundesrat, the French Senate, the House of Lords etc do real work and the members earn their money. In Ireland the Seanad is largely irrelevant, does next to nothing, has to pad out its schedule to find things to talk about, and yet costs a bomb. It is beyond fixing, and I say that as a one-time respecter of it. But when you actually look at it you end up embarrassed at just how appalling it is.

What I have to laugh at is how all the members go on about how important it is but the vast vast majority of all the members of all party's have tried to get into the Dail and would prefer to be there including the right honourable members from the university panels Shane & Ivana and past members Brendan Ryan Gemma Hussey Mary Robinson & Ml Dee to name but a few!

[TommyO'Brien]

Could anybody explain how this collection of gimmicks could, by any stretch of the imagination, be regarded as meriting the title "New Republic"

So nice of the FF press office to join us.

BTW have you any replacement for Gene yet?

I know FF doesn't do reform (unless their friends the builders want it) so it is not surprising that you cannot grasp the concept.