Fine Gael Propose a Constitution Day and a "New Republic"

[FutureTaoiseach]

Will Labour tolerate these proposals? Cllr, can you shed light on this?

[TommyO'Brien]

Will Labour tolerate these proposals? Cllr, can you shed light on this?

Gilmore endorsed abolishing the Seanad in December.

[FutureTaoiseach]

A List-System is a cynical ploy by party-HQ to deny the electorate their democratic right to determine who represents them. The proposed Citizens-Initiative for the Dail shows promise though.

[Christel]

I've been saying this for ages, that FG should be far more radical than they have been so far. Looks like they've grabbed the bull by the horns. They've elaborated in their 20 TD/Seanad constitutional referendum within a year by saying now that they will hold 5 referendums on the same day with the aim of creating a "New Republic" in what would be the biggest constitutional overhaul "since the 1930's".
They have also called for the replacement of the social partnership scheme which they say is a jobs for the boys gig for insiders.

Full story in today's Irish Times:
FG proposes referendum on five key political reforms - The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 13, 2010

The full list of referendums:

- the abolition of the Seanad;

- a new “list” system for selecting 15 TDs;

- new constitutional recognition given to four Dáil committees;

- reduction of the President’s term of office from seven years to five;

- the introduction of a public petition mechanism for the Dáil.

They also want to reverse the Abbylara decision and have a referendum on reducing judges pay.

I think that this really has the potential to put clear blue water between FG and the other parties and will form the basis of the time for change/we can't let this happen again (and here's how) election campaign. I have felt since about December 2009 that FG have been too conservative in tackling the failure of the institutions of the state. I am a lot happier having read this.

When I read the article about it I thought: That's not very exciting.

[tonic]

Me too especially when the proposals are a load of fluff.

Not at all, there's no comparison. Fluff is rock solid compared to reducing the number of TD's from 166 to 161 and the presidential term from 7 to 5 years.

[Baron von Biffo]

Sometimes, the obvious is so obvious that it gets missed. The Party proposes a list, the people vote for or against the list. The Senate is chosen by politicians or in the case of Trinity, by the relics of old decency, the people have no input. By the way, FG say they're still discussing the list proposal.

Seanad - a way for parties to get their unelectable dross into the Oireachtas.
List system - a way for parties to get their unelectable dross into the Oireachtas.

[ivnryn]

They have a similar system in new zealand which seems to be working quite well.

They actually use mixed member plurality. Top up seats are added in order to rebalance the party totals. Most members are elected from single seat constituencies.

We could probably do something like that in Ireland. Maybe 130 TDs elected locally and then assign 20 extra seats between the parties in order to rebalance the party totals. Ofc, that assumes that a FPV for a candidate is also a FPV for the party. Also, the system handles independents very badly.

[Horses]

None of these policies are radical. A radical policy would be withdrawing Ireland from the EU, a 20 year moratorium on immigration, re-installing the death penalty or decriminalising drugs and gun ownership.

Abolishing the Senate means nothing to 99.9% of the country.

[tonic]

None of these policies are radical. A radical policy would be withdrawing Ireland from the EU, a 20 year moratorium on immigration, re-installing the death penalty or decriminalising drugs and gun ownership.

But with these proposals all you have to do is get 10,000 like minded loopers, and what lunatic proposal couldn't, and you can get all this and more discussed at the top table. I mean it's not as if they have anything else to decide on.

Yes indeed, these proposals from FG could change the way the Dail works, once they set aside 3 days a week for discussing the latest Liveline concern, it'll be all systems go.

[Rocky]

Seanad - a way for parties to get their unelectable dross into the Oireachtas.
List system - a way for parties to get their unelectable dross into the Oireachtas.

Nope:

Seanad - A way for parties to keep people who narrowly missed out on the Dail last time in full time politics, so they can run for the Dail again.
List system - a way for parties to get people with experience in other areas and who don't want to do the Constituency thing or work their way through the system into the Dail.

Big difference.