Fine Gael Mad NewERA Plan

[stonethrower]

We have all spent too much time (myself included) discussing what George did and didn't do this last week and what it means for Inda.

Like many people I want to see FF out of power and I expect FG to be the largest party in the next Dail and I suppose the lead party in Government. A few posters here suggest frrom time to time that they have sound economic policies. I liked FGs good bank idea, but in general their economic approach and policies are not that different from FF. So I thought I would have a look at some of their new idea, such as Simon Coveney's NewERA document. http://www.finegael.ie/news/documents/RBI1.pdf

Have to say I am a bit shocked. They are proposing to borrow €18.4bn yes another €18.4bn to invest in what look like worthy projects, but FG projections looks a little optimistic and flimsy. They claim it will create a 100,000 jobs, that sounds like the thousands of green jobs the GP claim they have created. I was particular struck by their suggestion that this €18.4bn would be "off the Government's balance sheet". That will fool no one, if it walks like and duck and quacks like a duck then it is a duck and just another €18.4bn debt to be repaid.

There has been no debate on this, I suppose in fairness FF can hardly lecture anyone else on sound economic policies just now, but I am shocked and a little disappointed that FG have come up with this rather poorly thought out, unproven and very costly proposal.

[Edo]

Has already been discussed here over the last 6-8 months

Good to see that the Sinners are as up to date as they always are when it comes to economic policies

There is borrowing for investment and there is borrowing for current spending and consumption - I assume you know the difference between the two

New Era got a very good review in all the newpapers, business shows and economists when it was launched - guess you must have missed that one aswell

http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/119344-new-era.html

So if you would care to elaborate on your problems with the document that go beyond " jesus 18.4 billion in borrowing -OMG - we cant afford this!" shocker headline and come back with something with a bit more substance to it - maybe you disagree with the sell off of state assets to fund it - maybe you have problems with the structure, maybe you think that the energy crises is overhypped etc etc etc - but come back with more than you have here.

it just looks like you were desperate to hit FG with something and you picked the first thing to hand.

[Drico]

As a matter of interest, do Sinn Féin have any economic policies?

[cyberianpan]

New Era got a very good review in all the newpapers, business shows and economists when it was launched - guess you must have missed that one aswell

Can you cite the prominent economists who give it good reviews ?

I can't help but be reminded about when FG lied about their banking plan being supported:

http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/110...n-do-they.html

cYp

[charley]

all very worthy,but a lot of this should have been in place 15 years ago, the cost of these works now would be too excessive ,the biodiesel plants are a good idea , the research into hydrogen fuel cell should be there too, the hope that they will get extra revenue from telecom companies is doubtful, and if they ever did an audit to see how much of our water system need replacing the costs are way off

[SPN]

all very worthy,but a lot of this should have been in place 15 years ago, the cost of these works now would be too excessive ,the biodiesel plants are a good idea , the research into hydrogen fuel cell should be there too, the hope that they will get extra revenue from telecom companies is doubtful, and if they ever did an audit to see how much of our water system need replacing the costs are way off

Lets be clear about this half baked idea from Simple Simon.

1) It involves turning the DCENR from a Government Department into a Quango.

2) It will crowd out all SME level entrepreneurs from the critical growth areas of our economy.

3) It proposes to outlaw the sale of mineral diesel (2.75 million tonnes of which are used every year) and replace it with 150,000 tonnes of biodiesel.

4) Hydrogen is a joke. It takes more energy to create, compress, and contain, than it produces when it is run through a fuel cell.


It is yet another clear example of why those glorious amateurs in Fine Gael keep being elected to Opposition.


Small and Medium Enterprises are the key to the future of this Country. They need to be supported.

They do not need to be crowded out by half baked cloud cuckoo land gobbledegook from the inbreds in FG HQ.


At least Bertie had the good sense to put someone into DCENR who actually understood the subject.

..
.

[goosebump]

As a matter of interest, do Sinn Féin have any economic policies?

Yes, they plan to pass a law to make it illegal to make somebody redundant, thereby reducing unemployment to 0% overnight.

[stonethrower]

Has already been discussed here over the last 6-8 months

Good to see that the Sinners are as up to date as they always are when it comes to economic policies

There is borrowing for investment and there is borrowing for current spending and consumption - I assume you know the difference between the two

New Era got a very good review in all the newpapers, business shows and economists when it was launched - guess you must have missed that one aswell

http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/119344-new-era.html

So if you would care to elaborate on your problems with the document that go beyond " jesus 18.4 billion in borrowing -OMG - we cant afford this!" shocker headline and come back with something with a bit more substance to it - maybe you disagree with the sell off of state assets to fund it - maybe you have problems with the structure, maybe you think that the energy crises is overhypped etc etc etc - but come back with more than you have here.

it just looks like you were desperate to hit FG with something and you picked the first thing to hand.

Firstly I am a sinner (who isn't), but not a Shinner (not that this should matter) anyhow.

I only vaguely remember a document being launched in November, but now I see this was a reheat of a document launched in March 2009. Only main difference now is that the plan will cost about €7bn more or about 1bn a month. I don't have a difficulty with the fact that FG sought to reissue a plan and I welcome the fact they are producing ideas and proposals. However given that this country is virtually bankrupt because of reckless, feckless and populist policies pursued by FF, I think the taxpayers have a right to ask valid questions concerning the economic policies of all parties.

Thanks for the link to the discussion here last November, but to be honest it was a little limited, not your fault but hardly a thorough assessment of the proposals. I would welcome details of independent economists and analysts who welcomed the proposals. The only review I could find just now was by Richard Curran, who I would have a lot of respect for. He is rather scathing of the plan. The Inquisitor: ThePost.ie

You ask me to detail my concerns.

1. FG is proposing to borrow €18bn, the document is very vague and skirts around a range of issues.

2. I note your rather condensing point re borrowing for investment and borrowing for day to day spending. Yes I know the difference, but not all investment is money well spent. There are such things as bad investments, good money after lousy projects. I thought FG was the party of the private sector, they are proposing a huge Government project, the state does not have a very good record in that regard.

3. I don't like the concept of "Off the Government's balance sheet". This sounds all too FF and Enronomics for me. Its still debt that has to be paid off.

4. Lots of people are looking for stimulus plans and investment, however many of those who want a stimulus package are the vested interests. I worry that much of this plan has been driven by vested interests who will swallow up the money and taxpayer will pay for it.

5. Well Richard Curran raises other issues I hadn't thought of until now re NPRF and state sale of assets, it may well be a decade before value can be got for state companies, so does that mean more borrowing will be required.

There are some good things in there re regulatory reform, but that could be achieved without spending €18bn.

[hiding behind a poster]

Small and Medium Enterprises are the key to the future of this Country. They need to be supported.

They do not need to be crowded out by half baked cloud cuckoo land gobbledegook from the inbreds in FG HQ.

And there we all were, thinking you were making some economic arguments that at least were worthy of debate. And then it came. "the inbreds in FG HQ".

If you want a debate, debate like an adult. If you want to spam the boards, at least be man enough to admit your motivation.

[meriwether]

And there we all were, thinking you were making some economic arguments that at least were worthy of debate. And then it came. "the inbreds in FG HQ".

If you want a debate, debate like an adult. If you want to spam the boards, at least be man enough to admit your motivation.

Its good to see SPN back from his self enforced hiatus after telling us that there would be no Nama as the Greens wouldn't support a haircut that was less than 60% I believe (it could have been 70%).

Welcome back SPN.

A handy tip HBAP, the next time SPN gets uppity, remind of his depity leader costing a text tax proposal as bringing in income of 1bn, when it was closer to 90m.
It always focuses his mind.