Holding JOD to account. I thought it started with Sinn Féin and then Gilmore finished it.Originally Posted by Congalltee
The we are gentlemen in the Dáil argument is a cop out. It reflects a failure of FG to engage and build a relationship with the voters. Simple as - anything else is just excuses.
EK had nothing to do with that , IMO he got the bronze in that particular contest.
Lab got the gold - they were the ones who said in openly in the dail. they were the one who called it out.
SF got the silver - they made noises right before lab pounced.
EK as usual was sitting with his thumb up his hole.
If any of EK's accolytes are reading this , do yourself a favor - screw willie o'dea on misleading the high court.
quick now - dont say you havent been warned.
SF and Labour are opposition as well. They are just more effective in getting their message across.
FG are content to be a) the largest opposition party b) the largest party of local government c) be ahead of FF in the polls. They show no inclination to end pairings (in the fear that some day it will come back to haunt them), put down a motion of no confidence in Willie O'Dea for misleading the High Court (because it could help SF) or otherwise show that FF are a) corrupt b ) incompentent or c) both. Since 1987, FF has been in power for over 88% of the time. Why is this?
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812).
If FG attack O'Dea over the Highcourt incidence, it will give publicity to SF. FG need to keep up the pressure on SF because given their failure in tackling the complete domination of Irish society by FF for the last 80 years, they have to focus on them. What else can they go to sleep at night comfortable with, but the thought "at least we put those uppity provo's in their place".
People need to realise that FG are too comfortable in opposition. They can win now, by doing not really trying, if they went all out they could destroy FF, but do they honestly want that. They need them, too much.
I think a lot of what you say is true. FG failing with JOD when the country was up in arms about it was bad enough.
To let willie o'dea misleading the high court without hammering FF over it would be borderline unforgiveable.
Why wont they pull FF up over this? They must have something to hide themselves - anyway , thats off topic.
I think you are right , they are comfortable being 2nd best.
I mean EK became leader of the fine gombeens after being there for the guts of 30 years!
what does that say about the party?
To me it hints at "stay in long enough and you will get your reward , dont do anything out of the ordinary - you time will come son - just keep the head down".
This type of attitude allows the bert to get away with his lies , it allows JOD to get away with expenses ( if lab didnt step in ) and it allows WOD to mislead the high court and not be held accountable.
EK is as much to blame for the state of the country as BA.
All this BS about the celtic tiger happened on EKs watch - dont forget that.
We are half way through Fine Gaels third Dail in a row out of office. A noticeable attribute that they have is, if they are not mouthing about 1970s liberal values, is a fear of developing alternative policies to Fianna Fail led governments. This leads to the correct summation by many people that there is virtually no difference between the major parties. I would include Labour, Sinn Fein in this category too. I contrast this with a number of clear cut policies in the USA between Democrats and Republicans.
Many of the Fine Gael spokesmen in the wake of the George Lee departure pointed out that he did not write down his idea of future policy or give them papers. Every Leinster House Deputy would have found papers and articles on future policy by concerned citizens on their desks over the past ten years. What did they do with these voluntary papers? They just threw them into a bon fire. They were warned that the Government were exploiting our young people with Jumbo mortgages. What did Fine Gael do with this advice while in opposition? Their European politicians were the major players in securing changes at request of IFSC bankers to Securitisation and Asset Covered Securities legislation that made it easier for the International Financial Buccaneers to rip off the youth of Ireland with 100% mortgages etc. They failed to see, despite protestations from many academics, that a society can be destroyed by loading young people with jumbo mortgages in a housing bubble scenario.Democrats and Republicans
Democrats are generally more liberal. They believe in a larger federal government, and often implement tax plans to try to help the less privileged. They tend to believe the government must look for the greater good above the individual person in terms of well-fare and do what is necessary to make the populace more "equal". They assert that the values our country holds must evolve over time, and, therefore, tend to support such controversial choices as Pro Choice and gay marriage.
Republicans are generally more conservative. They believe that the answers do not lay with the government generally, but rather with the people. They want less government interference and tend to believe more strongly in property rights and less strongly in well-fare rights, holding economic equity above equality. Many republicans are religious and tend to hold to the morals characterizing the Founding Fathers, which results in general disapproval of abortions and, for some, gay marriage.
WikiAnswers - What is the difference between Republicans and Democrats
There has been massive investment in Education in Ireland over the past thirty years. There is no business or area that has not got a bunch of highly educated banking, economists, accountants, masters of business degree holders etc. I would be surprised if some of them would not have approached our politicians with urgent papers on the erroneous direction of Irish Government policies. The Irish people choice to ignore any warnings, by voting FF back into government for a third term. The onus was on the opposition to highlight the shaky premises on which government politicians operated and inform the people. The concept of “Right and Wrong” is kicked aside by all our parties. Therefore, people do not see any difference.
George Lee, a learned man in economics; a man who was fully exploited for his understanding of Finance by the Head Honchos in RTE. He drew many viewers to RTE News bulletins and current affairs programmes, likeable in a funny sort of way and not only by those following the receding hairline on the back of his head; but because his summaries operated with teeth and bite: a welcome addition in a world where one was condemned for questioning Ireland’s roaring Celtic Tiger.
Any clown would know that George was not the type that you could spend the night chatting with over a couple of rounds of pints; or the chatteable, sort of smiling pleased to meet you sort of guy: but there are no clowns in Fine Gael.They obviously were impressed with his other attributes: vote-getting, popular with the people, so they used him in the only way that Irish political parties have grown accustomed to doing. They got him to go round the country doing PR work; by just presenting himself. George was not happy doing this:
No! George is one of the people. He was not ready to spend one half term in opposition, never mind three full terms as political apprentice in order to be molded like the majority of the existing Fine Gael front bench. He served his apprentice in economics elsewhere: he was not to substitute ineffective politics for the vast amount of time spend on reading economic, banking literature etc."When the leaders choose to make themselves bidders at an auction of popularity, their talent, in the construction of the state, will be of no service. They will become flatterers instead of legislators; the instruments, not the guides of the people"
Edmund Burke 1729 – 1797
When I think of all the policies with which Fine Gael could have brought down the government. One was in the period 2000 to 2003 when they were presented with papers on “exploiting our hydrocarbons instead of our young people (with mortgages)”. They did absolutely nothing; only contributed and assisted the Fianna Fail government in the continued drowning of the country in massive DEBT.
No two ways about it: our political set up, not just Fine Gael has been a massive failure.
Last edited by WTTR; 9th February 2010 at 05:49 PM.
100% correct
Fg the man that says all the right things and does all the right things but never gets the girl !.
Joe Soap says enough is enough...............
WTTR, You are correct I believe to a large degree. However, the "system" per se should produce better than it´s doing. Broadly speaking you can paint FG as the party of gentlemen, and FF as the party of graspers/gombeens and although cruel to say, I don´t think it´s far from the mark if we look at the history of political corruption.
Where FG have failed is in their absolute laziness like you have pointed out in challenging where the country was going. A politician has much more resourses at his/her disposal by way of forecasts than is reported to the lay person. Why then did they not become vocal a long time ago, and why are they still so silent. My guess is that a large percentage of these gentlemen were benefiting from the bubble in a personal way.
It is borne out by support for the bail outs (& NAMA) by notables such as Dukes & Fitzgerald.
Summary: The situation is hopeless.
Sync, those texters' opinion is as valid as yours. Just because they went to the expense of texting their view to Duffy, doesn't mean their opinion is worthless. Specially as just about all of them would be eligible to vote. (students would be at school)
Why not put out detailed policies, specially where the public can see them? That way people would know what each Party intends. It wouldn't effect the hardcore Party followers but the moderates and floating voters, the ones who actually decide which Party gets the best chance of forming a Gov't.
The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy. There are lies, damn lies and Fine Gael confusions. "I don't understand." Alan "it's only 79 punts" Shatter
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