George Lee resigns from Fine Gael and as a TD

[west'sawake]

I think your post represents the problem not only with FG but with institutionalised politics in this country with all respect. There were until yesterday many many more people in this country than usual prepared to vote FG in the next general election on the basis that there might be a credible alternative. George Lee has made the opposition look like a circus purely because it is a circus. Obviously the governing parties are party to the same deluded notions. Namely that an event of such huge implications for our political institutions is met with talk of party allegience, walking in the door of a long established party etc etc.

He walked into the elected parliment with a huge mandate from the people of south county Dublin. FG did not recognise that democratic mandate. The people wanted shreds torn from FF. What the living hell is the matter with you people? It was a mandate for the entire opposiiton to not let FF away with the smallest stroke. The people had had enough. Do you think your own little party club is what is really important? It isn't. It is a great shame that FG did not make use of such a democratic mandate and let Lee loose on FF economic policy in a way people would respond to and understand. Not to do so is a failure on so many levels is a total joke. I'm sorry that the egos on the front bench of FG didnt see this for fear they would not get their little go on the telly. FG must be now be seen either as as truely inept as FF or as riduculously stuck in partisan, party first, country second, politics. And this as a matter of fact is what people who were swaying toward FG for the first time in decades are now saying. Thats the simple political fact of the matter.

Who was responsible for this nonsense of having George Lee 'serve his time' etc etc and all that crap. Respect was given to George Lee because he had earned it over a decade and a half of incisive analysis of Irealnd's economy. Unlike FG. He had done his time or did FG not notice? From the feeble opposition they served up over the last decade it might the case that FG did not. He was elected almost half way into the current Dail. Are you people so wrapped up in yourslves you think half a Dail term is enough time to serve an apprenticeship and then go through the slow party motions and also delivering on a mandate? Or do you people think elected dail members should not only have a quota on count day but also a quote of funerals etc they should attend? Sorry but we don;t elect people on that basis. Do you people think the people who elect politicians elect them to 'do their time' (doing nothing) before actually doing anything? Is the FG party and all parties that out of touch? And Who was ultimately responsible for not making the most of him politically and with regard to economic planning? In other words - who was responsible for making FG look like a completely inept political party devoid of real leadership or even political cop on? You heard the polls - or are FG going to insist that they are right about Kenny and the electorate are wrong? Thats such a joke - only people totally cocooned from reality would dare such arrogance. Perhaps the great people at the upper echelons of FG are really only concerned with their own positions at the end of the day and afraid of real change and afraid of seeking a real mandate. And thats why George Lee left. Take it on the chin and stop deluding yourselves with partisan party nonsense. Two fingers to FG along with my two two fingers to FF from me and countless others also. Enjoy opposition because it looks like the strokes on the opposite side of the circus that clearly is Dail Eireann have you guys all figured out.

I am not a FG member nor am I a FG enthusiast, but this whole farce can only benefit FF, and for that I blame Lee not Kenny.

Another simple fact FG are in no way responsible for our present economic mess, FF and the Euro are and if I have any misgivings about politcal leadership in this country it is the arena of real policy alternatives, where there are few and the consensus is too crowded. I have heard nothing from George Lee's lips this past two days to tell me he would be different, only cliches and prognostications on what is wrong. Indeed ironically the only radical idea I heard this past year was that the cost of governing this country was too high, and that came from others in FG re the Seanand and Quangoes, among them Kenny and Varadkar.

Lee showed promise as a commentator but not as a T.D. and disappointingly while he was one of the few to see where the Euro might lead us, he was by his silence another cheerleader for handing over even more economic policies to Europe. McWilliams also has been lionised, if he became a T.D should he too lead us to Nirvana, mercurial and ebullient as he is too, God give me Enda Kenny any day.

I will really respect and believe George Lee if he actually starts a new party, one that offers the radicalism he purports to have.

[Donald Segretti]

George Lee is an attention-seeking egomaniac.

His comments on the Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Learning Technology (formerly Riverdeep) refinancing were a disgrace. He stood to gain little or nothing from his "scoop" while he threatened a major refinancing at a delicate stage of negotiations.

N.B. I have no personal interest in the matter but am an active investor.

[gombeennation]

Another simple fact FG are in no way responsible for the mess, FF and the Euro are

whats the point in having them then?
they are supposed to be the opposition - show where things are going wrong.
did they do that with the celtic bubble? did they fk.
did they hammer people over expenses? did they fk. ( JOD prime example ).
did they stop the culture of lying by pressing WOD on misleading the high court? did they fk.

[dalywise]

I am not a FG member nor am I a FG enthusiast, but this whole farce can only benefit FF, and for that I blame Lee not Kenny.

Another simple fact FG are in no way responsible for the mess, FF and the Euro are and if I have any misgivings about politcal leadership in this country it is the arena of real policy alternatives, where there are few and the consensus is too crowded. I have heard nothing from George Lee's lips this past two days to tell me he would be different, only cliches and prognostications on what is wrong. Indeed ironically the only radical idea I heard this past year was that the cost of governing this country was too high, and that came from others in FG re the Seanand and Quangoes, among them Kenny and Varadkar.

Lee showed promise as a commentator but not as a T.D. and disappointingly while he was one of the few to see where the Euro might lead us, he was by his silence another cheerleader for handing over even more economic policies to Europe. McWilliams also has been lionised, if he became a T.D should he too lead us to Nirvana, mercurial and ebullient as he is too, God give me Enda Kenny any day.

I will really respect and believe George Lee if he actually starts a new party, one that offers the radicalism he purports to have.

Well actually westawake, if McCreevy and Cowen had listened to the EU several years ago, we wouldn't be in the doodaa that we're in now. The EU time and time again warned them about their spending, about inflation, loss of competitivess etc. McCreevy and Cowen just ridiculed the EU in response - they didn't undersatnd us they claimed, they were jealous of our success, we were the envy of teh World, World all wondering how we did it, etc etc.....

Well one of those is at least true NOW, they sure are all wondering how we did it.

[west'sawake]

Well actually westawake, if McCreevy and Cowen had listened to the EU several years ago, we wouldn't be in the doodaa that we're in now. The EU time and time again warned them about their spending, about inflation, loss of competitivess etc. McCreevy and Cowen just ridiculed the EU in response - they didn't undersatnd us they claimed, they were jealous of our success, we were the envy of teh World, World all wondering how we did it, etc etc.....

Well one of those is at least true NOW, they sure are all wondering how we did it.

I remember all that well DW and it was akin those with petrol bombs in their hands warning us of an impending explosion, fiscal tightening while a little helpful was useless when we had interest rates, easy credit, and perfect capital mobility, courtesy of international deregulation, the eurasian savings glut, and a monetary policy suited to the needs of the then sluggish giant, Germany. Lee has admitted this in the past which was one of the reasons I admired him.

[NewGoldDream]

I see what you are saying alright.
It must be completely beyond belief from the fine gombeens in there.
I think thats what EK would have thought " let that upstart rot in the chair and if push comes to shove i will give him the ultimate prize - a front bench - no one can resist the power of the front bench"
EK would have thought like that because he deals with gombeens day in day out and has done for 35 YEARS!!! yes 35 YEARS.
most gombeens would sit backwards on a chair in a clown suit for 10 years if it meant getting a front bench.
GL aint a gombeen tho.
that was EKs mistake.

Ha ha! 'Gombeen' is the new argument? Repeat it time and again and it validates your point?

He couldn't hack it. Sure, maybe it's all about the system being wrong and he is too good for it and he is so noble and we are not worthy of him. But the simple fact is he put the books away and tried the practical for a while, and he failed miserably. Those who can, do. Those who can't get nice cushy jobs telling those who can how to do it better. He has proved, spectacularly, that sometimes Poindexters should stay in the library and leave politics to the big boys with a bit of backbone. He could draw one of those faces on his hand and tell himself how great he is I guess!

[kerdasi amaq]

What does George Lee think he's playing at? Doesn't he know that there's no point looking for an influence on policy until there's a General Election? Then the leadership will be looking for ideas that may help them win the election and they'll be open to influence. The main priority is to get rid of this incompetent, useless government first and then it's time for new ideas, which will really be necessary to get this country out of this mess.

First item on the agenda: leave the European Union.

[myksav]

Believe it or not, there are some places where a parliamentarian can't flounce away and resign his/her seat just like that if s/he is not being listened to by the party leaders.

Here in Finland, for example, a parliamentarian must request the permission of the Eduskun-ta (LOL, the word is unhypenated, but the cuss editor asterisks it out for some reason I can't fathom) to resign from it. And present a reason for doing so, if one is not already evident in the form of a scandal, a criminal conviction, appointment to an international post or the European Parliament, poor health, and so on. Permission is usually granted, but has been refused on a number of occasions.

The last time that happened was a few years ago when a lady representing the Left Union (formerly communists and their socialist allies) felt she was not achieving anything and wanted to quit. There was a vote and permission was refused. In effect, she was told to grow up and knuckle down to the job that her voters had chosen her to do, so she completed her term.

It would be interesting to see the vote if Lee had to do the same in the Dáil, wouldn't it? How would Biffo have voted, or Varadkar or Bruton?

Another amazing difference between two EU countries is that the Speaker of the Eduskun-ta is currently unpopular with some parliamentarians because of his very strict line on expenses. We sure could do with someone like him in Ireland.

Does Finland use the List System, by any chance?

[Limerick Lad]

Ha ha! 'Gombeen' is the new argument? Repeat it time and again and it validates your point?

He couldn't hack it. Sure, maybe it's all about the system being wrong and he is too good for it and he is so noble and we are not worthy of him. But the simple fact is he put the books away and tried the practical for a while, and he failed miserably. Those who can, do. Those who can't get nice cushy jobs telling those who can how to do it better. He has proved, spectacularly, that sometimes Poindexters should stay in the library and leave politics to the big boys with a bit of backbone. He could draw one of those faces on his hand and tell himself how great he is I guess!

+1 Any reasonable person having watched and listened to George Lee's media interviews yesterday would have to agree that he came across as petulant, egotistical and an overdeveloped sense of his own importance.
I thought James Reilly expressed it best, when he said on Vincent Browne, that he too entered politics with a single clear agenda, health policy, but he didn't sit back waiting for someone to realise his potential instead he took every opportunity to speak on health and eventually became FG's Health spokesperson while George wasted his time sulking waiting in vain for the mountain to come to Muhammad.

[dalywise]

I remember all that well DW and it was akin those with petrol bombs in their hands warning us of an impending explosion, fiscal tightening while a little helpful was useless when we had interest rates, easy credit, and perfect capital mobility, courtesy of international deregulation, the eurasian savings glut, and a monetary policy suited to the needs of the then sluggish giant, Germany. Lee has admitted this in the past which was one of the reasons I admired him.

The thing that was pounded into the thick heads of McCreevy and Cowen years before the Euro started was the need for fiscal discipline. The temptations of low interest rates were always known. Tha's why the Germans would have preferred countries like Ireland, Italy, Greece etc stay out of the Euro because of their previous records of mad spending sprees.

But Ireland clambered to get in to the Club. The warnings were there from the EU but Ireland and others chose to ignore them. We failed to put the correct balancing mechanisms in place to compensate for a monetary policy that some countries, like Ireland, were just not politically mature enough to handle with care.

Fianna fail destroyed the economy too between 1977 and 1981. There was no Euro then. But they followed the same policies as in the 2000s, and got the same result.

Don't blame the Euro or the EU. Blame corrupt Fianna Fail and their lust for popularity power.