George Lee resigns from Fine Gael and as a TD

[reknaw]

Believe it or not, there are some places where a parliamentarian can't flounce away and resign his/her seat just like that if s/he is not being listened to by the party leaders.

Here in Finland, for example, a parliamentarian must request the permission of the Eduskun-ta (LOL, the word is unhypenated, but the cuss editor asterisks it out for some reason I can't fathom) to resign from it. And present a reason for doing so, if one is not already evident in the form of a scandal, a criminal conviction, appointment to an international post or the European Parliament, poor health, and so on. Permission is usually granted, but has been refused on a number of occasions.

The last time that happened was a few years ago when a lady representing the Left Union (formerly communists and their socialist allies) felt she was not achieving anything and wanted to quit. There was a vote and permission was refused. In effect, she was told to grow up and knuckle down to the job that her voters had chosen her to do, so she completed her term.

It would be interesting to see the vote if Lee had to do the same in the Dáil, wouldn't it? How would Biffo have voted, or Varadkar or Bruton?

Another amazing difference between two EU countries is that the Speaker of the Eduskun-ta is currently unpopular with some parliamentarians because of his very strict line on expenses. We sure could do with someone like him in Ireland.

[gombeennation]

when offered what he wanted as apparently he was,

He was offered front bench.
That is not what he wanted.
He was on the telly all day yesterday - I'm surprised you didnt hear him say this. He wanted input.
He was not given the oppurtunity to input.

People say he didnt stay long enough - BS - he was there for 9 months.
He made an assessment that he could be there for 9 months after that and still no change.
He decided to leave because he wasnt happy with playing the charade.
He should be applauded for that.

Easiest thing for him to have done was , sit back , collect the cash , collect the pension - take the front bench , get more cash , get bigger pension.
he refused to do that and yet gets villified?

as for "he couldnt stand the heat" - more BS.
what heat? going around chairing committee meetings?
i suggest he couldnt stand the BS.

should he have known it was going to be like this?
possibly.
but you never know, unless you go.
he might have thought it was a slow process, but when he got there it looked impossible.

the winners/losers?

short term winner - GL
short term lose - FG
short term winner - FF ( easy to take pot shots at FG ).
long term winner - FG (if they get rid of kenny on the back of this fiasco) or FF ( if FG hold onto kenny )
long term losers - anyone who wants to make a difference in politics , ie the next young gun on the block who says "im going to change the system"- will be met by "hes just another GL"
super long term winners - the old political elite - same old same old "these new boys dont realise how difficult it is in politics , you have to be born into the role - now vote for my son , he is steeped in politics"

[orbit]

In the UK, there is also no direct legal mechanism for an MP to resign. The way it happens, is that the MP applies to the chancellor of the exchequer to be appointed to one of a small number of antiquated crown offices, and by being so appointed, they automatically forfeit their seat in parliament. One of them is the "Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds" - the current holder of that office being Iris Robinson. In theory, the chancellor could refuse the appointment, in which case, the MP would be stuck in office until the next election.

[Sync]

Yet he never offered input. And he's never claimed he did. He just "wanted it". So chairing the economic committee wasn't input. Going to the OECD wasn't input.

Isn't it more a case that if the input he wanted to offer (reduce cuts, engage in stimulus) was as well thought out as what he's offered over the past 24 hours then they were right to ignore him?

His position is fundamentally opposed to both FGs and FFs. Who's fault is it that FG wouldn't revise their entire financial outlook to suit him? They heard him. They ignored him and went with Bruton's ideas. What else should he have done?

This is like if Bono joined the DUP, then left in a huff that they wouldn't listen to his 32 counties plan, a plan which he later explained to the media consisted solely of "I'd like a 32 county Ireland"

[N17]

Should he resign because he cant influence his team either?

[Dee Four]

Rainbow in tatters.

Great day to be Alan Shatter, Olivia Mitchell or Alex White. Shíte day for the rest of us.

[jmayo]

Believe it or not, there are some places where a parliamentarian can't flounce away and resign his/her seat just like that if s/he is not being listened to by the party leaders.

Here in Finland, for example, a parliamentarian must request the permission of the Eduskun-ta (LOL, the word is unhypenated, but the cuss editor asterisks it out for some reason I can't fathom) to resign from it. And present a reason for doing so, if one is not already evident in the form of a scandal, a criminal conviction, appointment to an international post or the European Parliament, poor health, and so on. Permission is usually granted, but has been refused on a number of occasions.

The last time that happened was a few years ago when a lady representing the Left Union (formerly communists and their socialist allies) felt she was not achieving anything and wanted to quit. There was a vote and permission was refused. In effect, she was told to grow up and knuckle down to the job that her voters had chosen her to do, so she completed her term.

It would be interesting to see the vote if Lee had to do the same in the Dáil, wouldn't it? How would Biffo have voted, or Varadkar or Bruton?

Another amazing difference between two EU countries is that the Speaker of the Eduskun-ta is currently unpopular with some parliamentarians because of his very strict line on expenses. We sure could do with someone like him in Ireland.

Stop depressing us with tales of funcitoning responsible democracries
Next you will start putting up pictures of beatiful scandily clad women in sorching sunshine

He was offered front bench.
That is not what he wanted.
He was on the telly all day yesterday - I'm surprised you didnt hear him say this. He wanted input.
He was not given the oppurtunity to input.

People say he didnt stay long enough - BS - he was there for 9 months.
He made an assessment that he could be there for 9 months after that and still no change.
He decided to leave because he wasnt happy with playing the charade.
He should be applauded for that.

Easiest thing for him to have done was , sit back , collect the cash , collect the pension - take the front bench , get more cash , get bigger pension.
he refused to do that and yet gets villified?

as for "he couldnt stand the heat" - more BS.
what heat? going around chairing committee meetings?
i suggest he couldnt stand the BS.

should he have known it was going to be like this?
possibly.
but you never know, unless you go.
he might have thought it was a slow process, but when he got there it looked impossible.

the winners/losers?

short term winner - GL
short term lose - FG
short term winner - FF ( easy to take pot shots at FG ).
long term winner - FG (if they get rid of kenny on the back of this fiasco) or FF ( if FG hold onto kenny )
long term losers - anyone who wants to make a difference in politics , ie the next young gun on the block who says "im going to change the system"- will be met by "hes just another GL"
super long term winners - the old political elite - same old same old "these new boys dont realise how difficult it is in politics , you have to be born into the role - now vote for my son , he is steeped in politics"

No the BS is that he wanted things his way, he didn't offer any proposals, as he admits. He sat there and because everyone didn't workship at his feet ala RTE he threw a strop, grabbed the ball and went home.
GL isn't a winner, short or long term.
He is a quitter and will always be known as such.

Yet he never offered input. And he's never claimed he did. He just "wanted it". So chairing the economic committee wasn't input. Going to the OECD wasn't input.

Isn't it more a case that if the input he wanted to offer (reduce cuts, engage in stimulus) was as well thought out as what he's offered over the past 24 hours then they were right to ignore him?

His position is fundamentally opposed to both FGs and FFs. Who's fault is it that FG wouldn't revise their entire financial outlook to suit him? They heard him. They ignored him and went with Bruton's ideas. What else should he have done?

This is like if Bono joined the DUP, then left in a huff that they wouldn't listen to his 32 counties plan, a plan which he later explained to the media consisted solely of "I'd like a 32 county Ireland"

WE don't often agree but have to say well said.

Should he resign because he cant influence his team either?

Sod off up or down the N17.

[turdsl]

Ehh correction he was the best known economic commentator in the country.

There is a big difference.
Your description shows you just believe the hype about George Lee, which I am afraid he started to believe himself.

BTW I would be interested to know of the ones who are now, or were back 9 months ago, lauding him as some economic messiah if they were calling him a pessimistic whinger in 2007 ?

I used to argue those people were wrong that he was whinging, now I am not so sure if they were right.

And yes I do acknowledge that he read the economy right, but so did lots of us.

I Agree with most of what you, but very few economists were calling it bad for as long as he was ,however, my main beef about the whole episode,why did he enter politics, I Have a fair idea how politics work and i am looking at it from the outside,He is an intelligent man, and he has been close to it for 20 years,The system cannot be changed because those that can change it do not want to change it, He lacked foresight in that regard,To those that say he did not give it time, thats nonsense, he was right to go he would be just misrepresenting those people who elected him,Kenny and those that brought him into the party handled him badly, they had a very high octane person to deal with all he wanted was to have an input into policy, and they left him in the slow lane,Several journalists have written that he was unhappy,Kenny was the manager, does he not read the papers,Kenny has one good thing going for him and that is, there is no one better to take over, O Reilly is the best hope for the future,Kenny did two excellant intrviews today and the party must get behind him,there is hope as he says, he wants to show more of himself,certainly, the Kenny that has been doing interviews recently is a disaster,

[Iarmhi Gael]

Ehh correction he was the best known economic commentator in the country.

There is a big difference.
Your description shows you just believe the hype about George Lee, which I am afraid he started to believe himself.

BTW I would be interested to know of the ones who are now, or were back 9 months ago, lauding him as some economic messiah if they were calling him a pessimistic whinger in 2007 ?

I used to argue those people were wrong that he was whinging, now I am not so sure if they were right.

And yes I do acknowledge that he read the economy right, but so did lots of us.

Whether he was the best economist ever to grace this planet or not - what he really was - He was the people's champion. He was paraded in as someone who was going to solve this country. I don't think the people every thought he would change anything over night, but they felt he was batting for them in the trenches. He was also a media Darling which FF would have found hard to touch until he was in government.

He was worth at least 3-4% for FG imo, and to lose him is a big loss for the party. If he needed to be treated with kid gloves, so be it.

Its disappointing that he is now gone & FG have done well in the PR battle since, but people, no matter how they see him, will see it as a loss for them and will react accordingly. On a positive for FG, it looks like it has galvonised the party. But I am now in the camp that Kenny will forever be associated with own goals, and anytime something negative appears for FG, he will be further hit. I wish him well, thank him for all he has done, but I see no way he can substain any credible position with the public.

[Chrisco]

Sorry if this came up earlier, and I missed it.

George Hook was giving GLee a hard time yesterday on Newstalk; I just happened to be watching the re-run of the LLS (I wanted to hear Hookie's jibe at Tubbers for being a FFer), and he made an interesting comment in response to the question why didn't he agree to run in the Euros for Fine Gael:

I thought I couldn’t be able to make a difference; I worry about your old pal, George Lee, for instance […] I mean he was a very famous guy, he was doing a great job, and then he goes into Dail Eireann and suddenly he gets lost in the morass. I couldn't get lost in the morass...