Indo: Fine Gael plans boot camps for young offenders

[Libero]

I'm surprised that no other poster seems to have picked up on this.

(Maybe they have. If there's another thread out there, a mod should delete this one.)

It's reported in today's Indo:

Link - registration required
FG will set up boot camps to deal with young offenders

BOOT camps for bad boys will be created around the country if Fine Gael wins the next election.

A punishment proposal being developed for the party's election manifesto would see the Army putting young offenders through a regime of spit-and-polish in order to straighten them out.

Giving the Defence Forces a role in disciplining wayward youths is the idea of Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny. But it is bound to spark accusations that the party is fomenting a climate of fear about juvenile crime... (see the rest of the article here.

My take on it all? Well, since the proposal will never actually happen, it will be fun to see Labour squirm at more evidence that their would-be coalition partners are (whisper it quietly) more illiberal and authoritarian than Michael McDowell - though after Safestreets or whatever it was called we should have known that already.

More seriously, I wonder if anyone in FG has had the decency to ask the Army (both the commanders and the soldiers' reps) what they think about being given the task of babysitting the most wayward youth in the country.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Labour will veto this proposal. As with FG's few good ideas....

[Universal_001]

Populist bull************************ that does not actually reduce crime, typical of FG.

At least they finally have an idea, even if it is populist bs that proved they are more like FF than apart.

[cain1798]

Interesting that Libero cut off the end of the article:

"However, military-style boot camps that were introduced in the UK by former Home Secretary Michael Howard to combat rising youth crime proved to be catastrophic. A Home Office study condemned the boot camps as a dismal failure.

"The study found that the no-nonsense military-style drill did little to reduce criminality and actually encouraged anti-social behaviour."

And that isn't the end of the problems with nonsense like this. As Universal put it, populist horse-************************ to try and look good on crime.

[Inishowen]

Another fine example of the low esteem in which the Defence Forces are held. Under the 'aid to the civic power' the DF have had to get involved in various activities that more properly are the work of a police service. Now FG want them to become part of the prison service too (as if freezing your butt off in a tower at Portlaoise wasn't enough).
I'm surprised that an ex-PDF officer is prepared to contemplate a further degredation of the organisation he once served in. I've no problem with the idea of 'boot camps' or 'chain gangs' but they are the remit of the justice system not the defence forces.

[hiker]

More seriously, I wonder if anyone in FG has had the decency to ask the Army (both the commanders and the soldiers' reps) what they think about being given the task of babysitting the most wayward youth in the country.

I cannot see the PDF wanting to get involved in this kinda stuff. Whatever about ex-army looking to startup a new business in the "Rehabilitation Industry". 8)
They do seem to be popular in the US and mainland Europe. I think the Germans run them too.
Cant see the harm myself. I'm not sure thye will rehab anyone but at least it keeps them off the streets and busy.
My only fear is that it might turn a couple of them from oridinary common-or-garden lunatics into highly disciplined, single-minded, well trained, lunatics

[meriwether]

Having just read that report, Ive a few quick thoughts. A 'boot camp' is a bad idea. It doesn't work, and hasn't worked in the US. However, it is unclear whether this actually will be a bootcamp in the conventional sene of the word, or its just lazy headline writing by the independent. It may be some form of attempted rehabilitation for young offenders that bears resemblance to a bootcamp, but hopefully more sophisticated. We dont know exactly what that is, as it hasn't been formulated. Also, Timmins said it will be voluntary. If so, I dont see a problem, as young offenders aren't going to be offloaded to some brutal prison camp to be sodomised by a broom handle if they dont want to.
The word rehabilitation was mentioned, which is a good thing. Who knows, it may actually work. Broom handles, pink shirts and press ups over a bucket of puke aren't a good idea, but some sort of institution that teaches discipline, respect and maybe even a few life skills (sounds like an ideal outlet to teach trades, computer skills, or even give a basic education) might work.

[shannonBlueShirt]

More seriously, I wonder if anyone in FG has had the decency to ask the Army (both the commanders and the soldiers' reps) what they think about being given the task of babysitting the most wayward youth in the country.

I cannot see the PDF wanting to get involved in this kinda stuff. Whatever about ex-army looking to startup a new business in the "Rehabilitation Industry". 8)
They do seem to be popular in the US and mainland Europe. I think the Germans run them too.
Cant see the harm myself. I'm not sure thye will rehab anyone but at least it keeps them off the streets and busy.
My only fear is that it might turn a couple of them from oridinary common-or-garden lunatics into highly disciplined, single-minded, well trained, lunatics

It a hell of a better idead that your parties decision to close prisons and let the be lunatics run free on the housing estates of ireland...

[Universal_001]

My only fear is that it might turn a couple of them from oridinary common-or-garden lunatics into highly disciplined, single-minded, well trained, lunatics

There was plenty of iniatives that FG could have taken up that would be both tough on crime and actually work...

-Life meaning life for muder
-Three Strikes laws for violent crimes (which would only work if you had alternative punishment besides prison for non-violent crimes)
-Forcing offenders to pay full restitution to their victims, financially or by other means

But they take up the one thing that is both tough on crime and capable of actually increacing it.

Lets face it, this was put forth so angry citizens can go "yeh grrrr grrr put the little bastards in boot camps that will show em grrrr grrrr" Im sure they'd say the same to hanging murders publically from gallows but we don't do that...why? because the mob is not the best way to rule and we have representiative democracy as opposed to direct democracy so our leaders can show LEADERSHIP not follow with populist bs proven not to work.

Education, rehab and dicipline can all be done within the prison system or by other means.

[KingKane]

"The Fine Gael leader confirmed the initiative, telling the Irish Independent: "Billy Timmins will examine how a pilot programme could be developed which would offer young offenders a voluntary option of undertaking a programme with the Defence Forces instead of going to prison..."

I think offering a voluntary alternative to prison makes sense. It is the Indo that calls them boot camps, and it might be more that they feel it is their job to create a climate of fear.