How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?

[Question R24U]

well he's was marginal was he not, obviously unpopular you have to show how you can get a bigger target them him

The by-elections might be a better opportunity to explain to people how ABFF/NEGATIVE voting would work. Obviously ff will not win either but if the ff candidates top the poll and then slide off ie not even be the second candidate due to no transfers, the point would be made as to how it would apply in a general election scenario.
The marginals would be your target. It would not work in laois offaly or mayo. If you have any doubt about the effectiveness, compare alberts only election to bertie's first election . The difference was not the minor percentage change but the number of transfers.. If charlie was as transfer friendly as bertie, the 80's would have been Single Party government. Think also of mcdowell's fameous porter in 2002 - that would have hit transfers also.

[lostexpectation]

cold anybody be bothered to make up a list of second ff tds?

[Question R24U]

Its basicaly anyone who is a ff td but not a minister or junior minister.

If the government fails to fall on tuesday, then the next opportunity will be the european elections. Here positive voting could shorten the length of this government - voting o'keeffe rather than crowley could result in a by-election if he wins.
But the best opportunity is tuesday. Fine gael and labour people should pull out all the stops.

[Question R24U]

The EU commissioner job is up this year. This has to go to a ff td eg dempsey, to reduce the ff numbers.

Fine gael also need to see who in ff would want an election ie dermot ahern. FG should try and drive wedge between him and the greens eg this row on decentralising the equality tribunal which he maintains is going ahead despite gormley's claims. All education cuts should highlighted also to put pressure on paul gogarty.

[Gruffalo]

I am all for voting against FF but I do not believe in ABFF. Any campaign must also be against the Greens and any independents who support this Government. It is not enough just to knock FF out, we must also send a clear message that anyone who supports such corrupt Governments will also pay the price.

[Question R24U]

I am all for voting against FF but I do not believe in ABFF. Any campaign must also be against the Greens and any independents who support this Government. It is not enough just to knock FF out, we must also send a clear message that anyone who supports such corrupt Governments will also pay the price.

Go for it. But so far the Greens have not faced any pressure bar tara and shannon. Education cuts are an open wound within the greens. Their ministers have collective cabinet responsibility for them.
JHR won't be doing a volte face but Lowry clearly takes the view that all bets are off.

[west'sawake]

Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they are doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.

The only answer to this question is to return a single party FG Govt, so that all options of Labour, Greens, SF, coalescing with FF are gone.

This may sound unattainable, but as I said it is the only way one can be certain that the Maths dictate FF has to go into opposition. IN effect it means FG have to become the natural party of Govt that FF has become since it dropped it opposition to coalition. So that come the next election, Labour, the Greens, or whoever will make it clear they will go in with FG and no one else.

Imagine if you will a worst case scenario for FF. That they come back with only one seat in most constituences + the Ceann comhairle, and a second seat in Cowan's constituency, and maybe two or three others. Just say that they have 52-54 seats. Now imagine if Labour come back with 30-32, or in a worst case scenario, 25 and the Greens or SF 4-6.
Who will Labour do a deal with? Obviously it would get more influence and cabinet seats with a weakened FF than a stronger FG.. Suppose FG end up with 60 -70 seats? Would labour go in with a stronger FG or a weaker FF. My money is on the latter because poltics is about power not principle.

We may well have the irony of the party that gains the most seats, becoming the biggest party in the Dail, but still without power.

You heard it first here.

[Question R24U]

It appears that the government will bottle it for the fourth time this year - and spending cut less than four billion is not enough in my view. Bar kidnapping and assassination, Fine Gael, the greens or backbench ff tds with a grasp of reality need to bring this governmnent down tomorrow by any means necessary. Please.

[Question R24U]

Could the five junior ministers who lose their jobs, be the key to bringing this government down (if it gets through tomorrow)?

[ivnryn]

Could the five junior ministers who lose their jobs, be the key to bringing this government down (if it gets through tomorrow)?

All of them have to resign, but only some of them will be reappointed. It is good strategy as none of them know if they are one of the five, so will probably vote in favour on hope.