How can the Single Party (FF) State be ended?

[Question R24U]

There are a lot of posts here baying for Fianna Fáil blood, but what's the alternative? I detest both Fine Gael and Labour. Not keen on the Green party or New Sinn Féin either. I don't think that any of those parties have actually clearly articulated an alternative solution to the crisis in public finances, let alone one that the two or three parties likely to replace Fianna Fáil would espouse as a joint strategy. Vote for what?

• Fine Gael...builders and vested interests

• Labour...unions and abortion

• Sinn Féin..."equality"i.e. amnesty for illegal immigrants, incompetence in Government (see North)

I think what we need is for a minority to split or break free from Fianna Fáil. I fundamentally think most Fianna Fáilers are decent and motivated by higher purposes, but unfortunately are led by an arrogant clique whose reputations and careers are entirely based upon their grandfather's or great-grandfather's careers in the Civil War. If most Fianna Fáil cumainn broke away and perhaps joined up with certain disaffected ex-Sinn Féiners or indeed traditional Labour members, then perhaps a new party could be founded that would be naturally successful in Ireland. It would be socially conservative and economically populist with a firm commitment towards Irish re-unification. Essentially, the Fianna Fáil brand is dead and they need to jettison the dynasts that control that movement i.e. the Lenihans, Haugheys, McEllistrims etc.

The new party (perhaps The Republican Party) would be ideally suited to the character of the Irish people, reflecting their values in a manner that Fine Gael/Labour do not. This party would nationalize the banks, Eircom and Aer Lingus if necessary but also tackle the public sector unions and implement reforms.

This is an interesting proposition. When ff loses the next election the soul searching will begin. Perhaps the asset stripping of ff values which was documented by kevin boland could be undone. Others will just try the old trick of shameless opportunistic opposition. If that fails and ff faces a second term in opposition - the split could then occur. A more meaningfull idealogical division could exist in irish politics.

[Question R24U]

The process has now begun. A fg motion. Greens doing the right thing in the teeth or opposition by cowen. Government down to a majority of one plus two indos. At the doors ff are about as welcome as a mexican in a maternity ward.

Its getting worse for Cowen's Cronies. FG on 38% with a torylike lead of 17%. George Lee will give the party backbone. On those figures a fg led government without labour is possible. The drubbing for ff could be far far worse than anticipated. The crash of 1929 led to the switch to ff from fg - could the current economic depression have the reverse effect?

The counting of the votes on the 6th of June will indeed be D-day.

[Question R24U]

Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.

To those fresh from victory in local elections I urge you not to get carried away. You still much implement all of the above to make a real difference.

[Gruffalo]

To those fresh from victory in local elections I urge you not to get carried away. You still much implement all of the above to make a real difference.

What victory? FF are still running the country so there is no real change.

[Question R24U]

What victory? FF are still running the country so there is no real change.

Indeed, but more worryingly is that they are running the country with the knowledge that they are going out of power. Every state appointment needs to be observed very closely.

[Question R24U]

The state we are in:
- civil servants are continuing to get incremental pay rises despite deflation, the recession and fiscal imbalance.
- only 19 of 148 judges have taken a voluntary pay cut.
- 1 in 10 children have literacy problems.
- unemployment is over 400,000 but there is no sense of crisis.
- the two green ministers have had next to zero influence outside of their own departments.

Symptoms of a one party State?

[Question R24U]

Since FF first took power in 1932, it has lost power following an election, on only 5 occasions. And never two elections in a row. It has been in power for 20 of the last 22 years. In fairness an awful lot has been achieved in that time and even when the (self-made) current economic woes have passed, the State will be a far healthier position than it was in 1987 (for starters the economy is about 3 times the size). But is recognised by 72% of the electorate and large portion of FF members, that the Party needs to get out of power. For the good of the country and the Party itself. It goes without saying that those at the top will do all that they can to stay in power (Powers only wears you down when you don't have it (Andreotti)).

So how can FF be forced out of government:
Part1:the Dail.
1) FG and Labour need to win the bye-elections, leaving them on 52 and 21 respectively, with SF, they have 3 seats mre than FF.
2) The Greens hold the balance of power, exclusively.
3) The Green party will continue in governement until such time as it becomes untenable (they believe that they rae doing well in their two ministries) from within, outside due to unpopularity or Mahon.

Part 2: the Greens
4) Either Gormley and Ryan are made an offer they cannot refuse ie they will get their ministries in the next government even if their votes are not required or the Green Party is infilrated by people who will vote the Party out of power. The memebership is quite low and a critical mass could be achieved within the party to have a special conference next year.
5) Pressure. The Greens are reminded of the collective nature of government ie they are made to support every education and health cut, every dodgy appointment and decision and harassed constantly. The pressure becomes massive. Evey speech, press release, media report should highlight the fact that the Greens are the only party keeping FF in power.

Part 3: Within FF.
6) FG and Labour (and even SF) need to target FF backbenchers/former ministers, with a view to them crossing the floor. This is unlikely to be achieved, but it could make a few go independent and that could be enough.

Part 4: The Seanad.
7) The government majority here is very tight, while it cannot vote a government out, a majority here can make governing very difficult.

Part 5: the People
8) A link has to be made in people's minds that voting FF for a 1,2,3 or 4 preference, in the locals, euros and by-election is a vote for Ahern's digouts, banker bailouts, corruption and cronyism, dodgy deals. An ABFF education shoudl be co-ordinated.
9) Being associated with FF needs to be seen as anti-social. Or basically anyone in FF should be treatde in the same way as an Nazi Anglo-Irish boardmember who has just farted. Eventually the media will cop on.

Part 6: offer a credible and coherent alternative.
No elaboration required.

Part 7: the FF state needs to be dismantled.
1. Provide real accountability for spending public monies.
2. Abolishing over 800 quangos.
3. Kicking out the unqualified friends of ff from boards and bodies.
4. Ending dependence on social welfare for 640,000 citizens.
5. Greater regulation of certain aspects of business and community life eg planning and financial services.
6. Abolish a host of tax shelters and 6,000 lawful avoiders.
7.adopting EU regulations on time and then then enforcing them eg pollution, habitats
8. Reform the national broadcaster.
9. Break the power of the press barons.
10. Improving the education system with a view of qualtity and ending inequality.

I accept that I was part of the problem. I was a member of FF for 16 years.

I appears that Leo V on Sam Smyth's show has tapped into this. While his comparison to the nazi's is a tad OTT, his reference to deFFification is interesting one and shows insight that beating FF in the next general election is not enough.

[netron]

I appears that Leo V on Sam Smyth's show has tapped into this. While his comparison to the nazi's is a tad OTT, his reference to deFFification is interesting one and shows insight that beating FF in the next general election is not enough.

deFFication is already happening amongst the electorate in my view.

just take the local election results, and the area where i hail from - cork north central.

ok, its only a small example, but knowing the area growing up , i was shocked at the result:

Cork North Central results

This area used to be an FF bastion. Solid FF that didnt budge for decades.

I remember canvassing as a wee lad for the WP, and it was a hard hard slog going up against the FF machine.

Now look at it. Over 50% voting for leftwing parties.

[load1234]

The economy grew on debt from foreign and Irish banks, there was also large handouts from Europe, most of the wealth went to foreigners, like foreign multinational companies. The government cleverly transfered the debts to the people and companies in Ireland. From 1987 there has been no change in the economy once debt has been removed.

[Question R24U]

'Nama is the only show in town'.

Quote from today's rte's report of the news that the Supreme Court agreed to sit during their vacation to hear carroll's appeal to continue the protection of the Court to his companies. Groupthink is dangerous thing and we appear to exhibit it in spades. Nama is a Fianna Fail/banks idea. The Greens are trying to add on a few bells but basically the mentality behind it is all will be well once the building industry gets going again.