Will Cowen be seriously damaged if Lisbon Falls?

[Fr. Hank Tree]

I don't think it will, but yes because he has allowed himself to become inextricably personally linked with the yes side, especially with his warning to FF dissidents and call for mobilisation of the FF organisation. Also, his more blunt and confrontational style, whilst admirable in that it shows unreserved passion and commitment to a particularly side, means the messier the egg on his face if it falls. A case of big risk, big gain.

[sarak]

Coming so early in his term -having led the full fianna fail campaign - of course it will. Im not saying it will knock him out, but of course it will damage him.

[The Earl of Desmond]

Bertie wasnt particularly damaged by the Refusal of the Irish people to ratify the Nice Treaty.

more to the point, Cowen was Foreign Minister when Nice I was defeated. It won't damage Cowen's political stance in Ireland if Lisbon fails, however it will damage Ireland's stance in Europe.

No it won't. Just like nothing happened to France or Holland after Nice so nothing will happen to Ireland - some EU intellectual snobs will be miffed that the 'little people' dared to challenge what they were being told but that's about it.

I don't think Cowen or Kenny will be damaged at all if it fails as it is the EU as a whole and the notion of people being simple 'told' to vote a certain way without any explanation of what it is they are being told to vote for.

If it is passed even by 1% the political class will seize on it being passed and will ignore the message they are being sent and if it fails I don't really think they'll take that lesson on board either.

[sarak]

im not talking about being damaged by europe or within europe or by some european elite. im talking (as i think most others are on this thread) about the irish electorates reaction to a loss.

[The Earl of Desmond]

im not talking about being damaged by europe or within europe or by some european elite. im talking (as i think most others are on this thread) about the irish electorates reaction to a loss.

Life will carry on as before - such like it did in France and Holland and maybe IReland will enjoy a massive increase in direct foreign investment the same as France and Holland did after they voted no to Nice. You can vote No to Lisbon and still be passionately pro-EU.

[Bom]

its clear now that people arent going to vote along party lines. following their own concience instead.

Welcome to Ireland, did you just get off the plane? Will you be staying long? Let me introduce you to...


Posted by tonys Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:05 pm
"Only if he’s standing under it at the time."

[CookieMonster]

Yes, if the Treaty falls, Cowen’s honeymoon is over. He will have a negative wiff of looser all over him in the same way Gordon Brown’s stock went south when he shilly-shallied over calling an election

Damn shilly-shallying, It'll get ya every time!

[Bom]

Yes, if the Treaty falls, Cowen’s honeymoon is over. He will have a negative wiff of looser all over him in the same way Gordon Brown’s stock went south when he shilly-shallied over calling an election

Damn shilly-shallying, It'll get ya every time!

And if he shilly-shallies too much it could all go topsy-turvy on him and before you know it he's pell-mell helter skelter round the place, fite fuaite through 'nother with his political buddies for support. At least no one can accuse him of being hoity toity.

[badboy2]

What I can't understand about this treaty is how its either completely perfect or completely flawed based on your position.

Now most things have pluses and minuses and a proper debate would accept that there are some sacrafices (loss of comissioner) and some gains (streamlining decision making)

However this debate has been conducted at the intellectual level of a Kindegarten. And the worst offender on the Yes side is the Taoiseach.

Accusing anyone who has reservations about the treaty of being anti EU was juvenile. Threatening to expell anyone from FF who disagrees with him on it was facistic (you can freely oppose the national cancer straegy and other issues of life and death and serve as a minisiter for health, but disagree witha treaty Brian is too lazy to read and you are out of the party)


So regardless of the outcome, I think Gaffo is damaged. He has failed to set the precedent for rigourous intellectual debate that will be necessary if he is to instigate any meaningful public sector reform.

If he wants to act beligerantly, maybe he should get his butt down o Cork and have a go at some of those train drivers who should be at work.

[badboy2]

Wasn't Brian Cowen minister for Foreign Affairs when the original constitution was agreed? Wouln't you think he would have read the amended draft just to see what had changed?

I just find the fact that Cowen claims he hasn't read the treaty about as credible as a horse racing tip from Bertie.