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  1. #221
    Iphonista Iphonista is offline

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    1973
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    1982
    2011
    Sooner or later the Fianna Fáilers will f__k up and FG will come in to pick up the pieces.

    1994 was the only time FF handed over to FG a reasonably healthy economy.
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  2. #222
    Dal gCais Dal gCais is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphonista View Post
    1973
    1981
    1982
    2011
    Sooner or later the Fianna Fáilers will f__k up and FG will come in to pick up the pieces.

    1994 was the only time FF handed over to FG a reasonably healthy economy.
    Watching Fianna Fáiler and Fine Gaelers fighting over their past record is like watching two bald men fighting over a comb. The sad thing is, they really are the only political parties that come within an asses roar of where I'd be politically, however both have been so caught up in sleaze and gombeenism that it sinks the heart.

    This governmetn have proven it for me that politicians that were elected during the 70's and 80's are all inherently coming from the same self-entitled background and twisted political culture. Enough with dynasties too. Give me a fresh face, born in the 80's or later, that stands on some principles that are somewhere between what FG and FF are supposed to stand for and that person will get my vote regardless of them being Green, Blue or Independent. I will be making it my business to meet them before hand though to size them up. If not impressed or they don't exist, I'll be going to the polling station to write a big fat "F*** You ALL" across my ballot. I couldn't care much for which party is or isn't involved.
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  3. #223
    hammer hammer is offline
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    Can someone remind me why BIFFO didn`t close the stamp duty loophole that developers were taking advantage of ?

    Revenue calculated it was costing the state a minimum of €250m per annum
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  4. #224
    hammer hammer is offline
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  5. #225
    odlum odlum is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphonista View Post
    1973
    1981
    1982
    2011
    Sooner or later the Fianna Fáilers will f__k up and FG will come in to pick up the pieces.

    1994 was the only time FF handed over to FG a reasonably healthy economy.


    The worst leaders in the history of the state have all been Fine Gaelers - fact. Bruton, Fitzgerald, Costello etc. Need I say more?
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  6. #226
    NewGoldDream NewGoldDream is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiptar View Post
    And if people decide that after there's been a full and frank campaign in which everyone is fully informed/reminded (including new voters) about how FF fecked up the economy, society and everything, then... fair and well.

    But first, let's have the full and frank campaign.
    Not sure what is meant by "full and frank". I presume you accept that there is no suggestion of either rigging or censorship, so for example neither you nor indeed anyone has ever been precluded from expressing criticism. On the other hand, I presume you would accept that this means that your criticism can be subject to scrutiny or ridicule too.

    If what you mean is more subtle, the way the media might take to a candidate or party, I think it's a facet of free speech. Sure, we see it abused every now and again, in the last national election (while the current administration was in office) one could suggest that Norris, McGuinness and Gallagher were all pretty neatly taken out one by one and the media darling was given a nice clear run. But that's how it goes. Noone was again actually prevented from raising queries about Higgins own record, but we cannot compel the media to share our concerns or demand to be noticed.
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  7. #227
    Shqiptar Shqiptar is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by brughahaha View Post
    FG wanted to abolish stamp duty on houses up to 450,000, hardly modest, FF abolished it at 320,000, FG were trying to outbid FF

    So once again your contentions of enormous differences between the two shows doesn't stand up to scrutiny or verifiable historical record
    FG were every bit as aggressive on inflating Government spending ,supportive of giving away interest setting mechanisms in return for the euro (the only weapon against house inflation) and continuing the housing boom ... in fact even as late as 2007 FG were trying to outspend FF - €300 min OAP?

    As for Labour , it was in the 2007 manifesto under "enable more people to buy homes" but wisely removed from their website .... and maybe people from the lower socio economic background didn't cause the bust (not sure how that is relevant to the discussion!!) but if our government owned in the first person a few billion worth of citizens valuless mortgages it would have dire economic repercussions (if they cant collect a €100 household charge , what chance collecting in arrears negative equity mortgage payments)

    I repeat , your contention - supported by many on P.ie, that had we not voted FF in 07 or even the election before we would not be were we are or that the end of FF will turn Ireland in to some sort of democratic utopia is mindlessly childish in the extreme for anyone that likes facts over foootball terrace style "my teams great and your a ************************" type posts so favoured by FG shills on here lately (as an alternative to credible arguments)
    The FG proposal was for second hand houses only. This would have benefited the market. There was an FF promise in May 2007 to abolish stamp duty for ALL first time buyers - no mention of any limit. What happened to that?

    First-time buyers get boost as stamp duty abolished - National News - Independent.ie

    I know that all would be right with your world again if you could prove I'm a dyed in the wool blueshirt. Unfortunately, I'm not.

    I just believe that when a party fails so dramatically while in government, it should not be rewarded with a return to power after a mere couple of years on the opposition benches. What is so objectionable about that?

    It doesn't matter if other parties might have done the same. The point is FF did it. By your logic, a thief who nicks an unattended handbag should be let go because others might have done the same. There-but-for-the-grace-of-God-goes-everyone is not a valid plea.
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  8. #228
    Shqiptar Shqiptar is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewGoldDream View Post
    Not sure what is meant by "full and frank". I presume you accept that there is no suggestion of either rigging or censorship, so for example neither you nor indeed anyone has ever been precluded from expressing criticism. On the other hand, I presume you would accept that this means that your criticism can be subject to scrutiny or ridicule too.

    If what you mean is more subtle, the way the media might take to a candidate or party, I think it's a facet of free speech. Sure, we see it abused every now and again, in the last national election (while the current administration was in office) one could suggest that Norris, McGuinness and Gallagher were all pretty neatly taken out one by one and the media darling was given a nice clear run. But that's how it goes. Noone was again actually prevented from raising queries about Higgins own record, but we cannot compel the media to share our concerns or demand to be noticed.
    I mean that during the campaign, Fianna Fáil's performance in 2002-07 should be a valid topic for discussion based on fears that the party - if allowed back into power - might allow the same to happen again.
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  9. #229
    NewGoldDream NewGoldDream is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiptar View Post
    I mean that during the campaign, Fianna Fáil's performance in 2002-07 should be a valid topic for discussion based on fears that the party - if allowed back into power - might allow the same to happen again.
    But who has ever suggested that it would not be a valid topic?

    Do you actually foresee an election in the near future where FF's record will not be raised? Do you think their opponents will forget about it? I doubt it. And in turn FF will point to failings in the present administration, and it's not like there is no ammo there. And speaking of ammo they will drag in SF. And so on and so forth.
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  10. #230
    tonic tonic is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiptar View Post
    I mean that during the campaign, Fianna Fáil's performance in 2002-07 should be a valid topic for discussion based on fears that the party - if allowed back into power - might allow the same to happen again.
    My reply.
    How to stop Fianna Fáil?
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