Sen. Mary White faces FF expulsion due to liberal Seanad vote

[The Cat]

Mary White has come out with some mad stuff in the past but she's dead right on this one. Fair play to her. Good to see someone willing to stand up to the Ruhama consensus

Prostitution is PREDOMINENTLY about abuse and slavery of women and children.

I have no concerns about free arrangements between adults who are free to enter those arrangements (taking into account legal and moral commitments).

If it were to be legalised it should be properly regulated with proper records kept (for follow up in event of disease outbreak or other matters).

As for Mary White, I don;t know enough about her to understand her thinking on this matter. Is it an attempt to distance herself from FF with an eye to future political prospects or is she just misguided?

[Panopticon]

Prostitution is PREDOMINENTLY about abuse and slavery of women and children.

No it's not. It's predominantly about people having sex for money. That is like claiming that Premiership football is predominantly about sex scandals. It's a false argument that attempts to conflate the moral condemnation that some people have for some aspects of the occupation as it exists today with the inherent nature of the act, and thus to shut down debate about how to ameliorate the negative aspects.

[Ciarán Mac Mathghamhna]

Your implicit argument, that humanity can be perfected according to your subjective view of perfection, supports the criminalisation of a large range of social institutions, from alcohol to gambling to the democratic elections that constrain imperfect politicians and bureaucrats.

Please detail further your evidence for this implicit argument.

A negative view of humanity is necessary to account for the negative things that humanity does.

No, it isn't. That's just silly!

[Boggle]

As for Mary White, I don;t know enough about her to understand her thinking on this matter. Is it an attempt to distance herself from FF with an eye to future political prospects or is she just misguided?

You are joking, right?

She called for a proper debate on the subject - how on this flat earth is that misguided?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Prostitution is PREDOMINENTLY about abuse and slavery of women and children.

I have no concerns about free arrangements between adults who are free to enter those arrangements (taking into account legal and moral commitments).

If it were to be legalised it should be properly regulated with proper records kept (for follow up in event of disease outbreak or other matters).

As for Mary White, I don;t know enough about her to understand her thinking on this matter. Is it an attempt to distance herself from FF with an eye to future political prospects or is she just misguided?

There is not a shred of independent evidence that that is the case. Ruhama doesn't count. Many clients of adult prostitutes are disabled. If you are suggesting the severely disabled are capable of enslaving anyone, then I strongly suggest you get professional help.

[Boggle]

If a client calls a prostitute, makes an appointment, visits her in a hotel or apartment, avails of her services, and then pays a sum of money, it is hard to see how how such a transaction could be rationally declared "illegal". A wealthy man who pays for the lifestyle of his mistress is doing much the same thing, and such people (both man and woman) are generally admired for their "success" and conspicuous consumption.

Just thought I'd second this sentiment.

As far as I'm concerned, the state has bigger things to worry about (healthcare, policing, eduication) than interfering with what people freely get up to in their own bedroom.

[Nemesiscorporation]

She is correct. Sweden has the highest incidence of per capita rape in the EU. Introducing the much-vaunted 'Swedish-model' would increase the risk to Irishwomen. Ruhama is a front for the religious-orders anyway. You only have to read their website to know that. Their board of trustees includes members of the Sisters of Charity/Mercy etc.

If Martin really wants to show FF has changed, the automatic-expulsion rule should be revisited. It was unquestioning obedience that brought FF where it is today.

I live in Sweden at present.

The Swedish prostitution law was written by traffickers for traffickers. It has created a massive explosion of trafficking in Sweden. Anyone telling you any different has either never been to Sweden or is more likely involved in trafficking. The traffickers literally force the women, young girls and young boys to prostitute themselves only a couple of hundred meters from the Svenska Rikstag.

Also Rape in Sweden is not investigate by the police unless you the person making the rape allegation is a member of the ruling class or the complaint is against someone from wikileaks.

[turnoffthebluelight]

What Mary White said about the need for a proper debate was entirely correct. Sex workers need to be at the table when sex work policies are being discussed. Sex workers have been excluded for too long, dismissed as victims or criminals, people who don't deserve to be heard. Whatever your views on sex work, support the right of sex workers to be heard in this debate.

[Sierra]

So apparently Mary White is firmly back within the fold - that didn't take too long!