Originally Posted by thetruthsback

The fundamental question still remains, why did Labour and Fine Gael not cry halt at the last general election?

Notwithstanding anything else in this thread, this is the only reason why FF is not down to around 7% at the moment.

The truth is that "populist inflationary fiscal policy" has come 1st, 2nd and 3rd at every election since 1989. It gives the current opposition the difficult job of knowing they will be resented by the people almost immediately upon the destruction of 60% of Fianna Fáil.

The best alternative is no government.

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

Over the past few months, it has been noticeable that those posting on P.ie are simply bashing Fianna Fail without putting forward any credible alternative policies. The fundamental question still remains, why did Labour and Fine Gael not cry halt at the last general election? Remember the Shinners wanted to raise corporation tax at the last general election. Where were those parties policies on regulating the banks three years ago? Before the legion of Shinner trolls jump in here, what about those recent educational spending cuts in the North, liars, liars. The opposition needs a dose of reality. It is hard decisions we need now not popularism

Sure them lads in Fianna Fail are great tribal lads, haven't a clue what they are doing but do well at the funerals and the local pub. They have the pulse of the nation, should be left in power which we still have a government. Policies!!!!!!!!...............

Originally Posted by Panopticon

Notwithstanding anything else in this thread, this is the only reason why FF is not down to around 7% at the moment.

The truth is that "populist inflationary fiscal policy" has come 1st, 2nd and 3rd at every election since 1989. It gives the current opposition the difficult job of knowing they will be resented by the people almost immediately upon the destruction of 60% of Fianna Fáil.

Sadly that's part of the game.

There is one massive exception to your statement above and that is the FG/Lab/DL government and their manifesto in 1997 and they lost power because of it and that's why we are here. That was the moment when it all went wrong, when the Irish people choose cute hoors and populism over competence.

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

Well look at any local authority run by FG and the word cronyism comes to mind



irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhcwqlaucw/rss2/

Sadly the vast majority of rezoning took place in 90s and up to 2004 when FF were in control of the vast majority of local authorities - fact - look it up and in the planning tribunals its FF 90% FG 10% when you look at the big picture.

Im not exonerating Fg/lab controlled councils - Cavan is one that springs to mind as a particularly bad example.

The other problem is that county councils really have f.all independent authority and power - the dep of the environment - who have ultimate power and are the paymasters and the ones who determined the guidelines under which rezoning and planning are given - could have stepped it at anytime in the past 15 years and called a halt - but they didnt until Gormley got into office - by which stage the horse had well and truly bolted.

The cronyism accusation wont stick - purely for the fact that everybody can see in every county that by co-incidence - the big developers nearly all happened to be major donors to FF - again by a proportion of over 90% to 10%.

the other side of this was that local authorities were starved of funding for better services and utilities that the people were demanding for the period 1999 until now - those tax cuts had to be paid from somewhere - local authorities do not have the power to unilaterally impose taxation and other revenue directives - so the only place where they could get funding was from developers levies - so naturally a lot more rezoning and developments were signed off than was sensible - the proper funding of local government would have seen a lot less developments signed off- Fine Gael had that in their manifestos of 2002 and 2007 - check them out.

Nice try - but it wont stick - cronyism is making sure your mates get the contracts and jobs - FG are in the ha'penny place when it comes to that - purely because they havent been in power for over 15 years and more particularly have never been in power when there was money and finance for this type of thing - 70's - cleaning up after FF's budget deficit in the late 60's and early 70's - 80s - f.all money after FF's 1977 budget which abolished local government revenue and there was a public service recruitment embargo for most of the 80's - 95-97 Ireland just emerging out of recession and Fg/Lab to their credit kept a tight rein on the finances as we repaired our position - limited public service recruitment.

You see FF have basically recruited the vast majority of the judiciary, county managers, county planners etc etc -they are the real power in the county - who can easily leaned upon from the Dep of Environment - councillors to be honest are a waste of space at the moment - either give them real power and finance or abolish them altogether - thats why FF didnt sweat a bead when FG won a lot of councils in 2004 - they had no power to do diddly squat - and so it has been since the 1930s

Funny - the Greens have been trying this angle on FG all year aswell - its quite noticeable that Gormleys enquiry into 6 local authorities, announced with great fanfare a couple of months ago - has gone very quiet - why? - because they have all reported back and he didnt get the results he was looking for - the elected councillors have all been exonerated while there have been some very pointed fingers at the permanent council managers and planners - all appointed by FF. In Carlow - FG/Lab have had control of the council chamber since 2004 - but all the major rezoning in the county had taken place prior to 2004 - and the report that came out didnt lay a finger on the elected members - but raised doubts about permanent personnel - no accusations of corruption - but the biggest developers in Carlow are all well known FF funders and backers - the report is available from the county council offices in Carlow - check it out - but I dont think you will find it being advertised by the Dept of the environment.

FG have serious local gov reform in their manifesto again this time - like they had in 2002 and 2007 - and I ask the question again - it seems to have been ignored last time around - would FF join in a coalition with FG or support an FG minority government? - in the national interest - so we can bring in the property tax, proper residential rates and water charges together so local authorities will mean something to their electorate and be able to make real decisions on issues that are important to their counties- in the national interest?

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

Over the past few months, it has been noticeable that those posting on P.ie are simply bashing Fianna Fail without putting forward any credible alternative policies. The fundamental question still remains, why did Labour and Fine Gael not cry halt at the last general election? Remember the Shinners wanted to raise corporation tax at the last general election. Where were those parties policies on regulating the banks three years ago? Before the legion of Shinner trolls jump in here, what about those recent educational spending cuts in the North, liars, liars. The opposition needs a dose of reality. It is hard decisions we need now not popularism

This is just typical propaganda from Fianna Fáil. The budget submissions presented by the opposition parties were different from what the FF/GP government proposed. Read the fine print.

FG I can tell you doesn't promote populism, might be Labour but not us.

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

Punishing FF will only allow a dysfunctional coalition to take power. Remember the mid-80's, Labour and FG what a disaster. Expect the new partnership to be paralysed by in decision too

There is the law of delayed consequences to consider. When a government does something, passes a law increasing taxes for example, the true consequence of this action will not be seen for a period of time, perhaps many years, possibly after they have been voted out. After the eighties things really started to pick up and the sustainable economy got under way.

The British unlikely coalition between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats has not proven indecisive. Perhaps a FG/Labor coaltion on our side of the pond will not either. After all the four year plan they must implement will already be written before they reach office.

Originally Posted by Rocky

They did things significantly different when they were in power before FF from 1994-1997. I see no reason why they would have massively changed their polices and their attitude.

This is complete ************************************************ from Fianna Fail and I didn't hear a word of it before the 2007, when FF were arguing they were the only party that could manage the Irish economy and that they had and were doing things differently from what FG and Labour would have done and do. Now that they know they ************************************ it up, everyone is the same and would have done the same thing. It'd be funny if it wasn't so serious.

No! During the last election they said they would provide more of everything than FF. How is that different? I remember the TV debates well.

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

Over the past few months, it has been noticeable that those posting on P.ie are simply bashing Fianna Fail without putting forward any credible alternative policies. The fundamental question still remains, why did Labour and Fine Gael not cry halt at the last general election? Remember the Shinners wanted to raise corporation tax at the last general election. Where were those parties policies on regulating the banks three years ago? Before the legion of Shinner trolls jump in here, what about those recent educational spending cuts in the North, liars, liars. The opposition needs a dose of reality. It is hard decisions we need now not popularism

found this
Government budget deficits in the 1970s and early 1980s were accompanied by European-style anemic growth. The budget deficits were resolved through spending cuts. Then other policy changes made it more difficult for the government to resume deficit finance.In the late 1970s, tax rates were reduced. Rate reduction followed rate reduction, and the highest personal income tax rate fell from 80 percent in 1975 to 44 percent in 2001. Corporate tax rates were also reduced, from 40 percent in 1996 to 24 percent in 2000, with even lower rates for companies involved in manufacturing or internationally traded services.

fianna fail got us into trouble in the 1970s and suprise suprise who got us into trouble again thats right fianna fail

ireland in the 1970s had the world record for worst deficit

Good post Edo, The Greens espoused reform of local authorities in their various manifesto's but sadly they delivered nothing, instead got sidetracked into pointless reform of the Dublin Mayorality. As for the Alternative, FG and Lab have really only got one term to redeem this country, even though their hands are mostly tied. If justice is not done and seen to be done, I could see some dark beasts emerging at the following election. (and I don't mean a resurgent FF).

The FF hacks have all disappeared now that they have been presented with the facts. Can we please now put this stupid thread to bed.