Frank Fahey sees Shell on the sea shore

[Mic]

Stage 2
In September 1987, Ray Burke, who was given the energy portfolio by Taoiseach, Charles Haughey when the new Fianna Fáil government replaced the Fine Gael–Labour coalition earlier that year, announced new terms that included the exemption of all oil and gas production from royalty payments and the abolition of all State participation.
Mr Burke also introduced a 100% tax write-off against profits on capital expenditure for exploration, development and production for up to 25 years. Mr Burke told the Dáil that he thought the removal of the 50% corporation tax rate on profits would be “over generous” and the rate remained. Mr Burke explained that the radical departure from the 1975 terms was necessary in the light of the poor drilling results of previous years and the low price of crude oil.
He said he was gravely concerned that exploration in Irish offshore waters might end if the new regime was not applied.

With the subsequent reputation garnered by Mr. Burke, there could be a certain cynicism about the precise reasoning which informed the minister's concern. Of course, cynicism is easy. I don't support anyone knows where to find the levels of interest in oil exploratiuon in irish waters over this period?

[Mic]

A bit like Justin Keating insisting that the likes of Shell hand over 50% of the value of their finds, which resulted in how many finds?

Um, I know you know the answer to that, since you've already asked it before and I kindly answered for you. You've failed to make any point directly though, and I'm not sure that you've established the relevance of the question in this context.

Surely the question of generosity to companies in extracting oil is substantially different to the question of generosity to companies exploring for oil in waters with a poor history of economic finds? Of course there is still a question of the economics of extraction, but it's hard to see how a question like "resulted in how many finds" contributes anything to that discussion?

[Mitsui2]

Does it not seem odd though that we are so desperate to get oil companies interested that we're willing to forego all rights to it, except for 25% tax on profits?

Not to tonic/HAL/TonyS.

On the other hand, if FG or anybody but FF did an identical deal, it would seem like treason to tonic/HAL/TonyS.

Peculiar, huh?

[tonic]

Not to tonic/HAL/TonyS.

On the other hand, if FG or anybody but FF did an identical deal, it would seem like treason to tonic/HAL/TonyS.

Peculiar, huh?

And you know all this how exactly?

Just to say that at the time of the reduction to 25% tax, NO PARTY, not Labour and not FG, had a problem with the proposal.

I also know it's a waste of time to point that out to you, you'll still go around with your head stuck somewhere dark and refusing to see anything that doesn't fit with your very fixed mind set.

[tonic]

With the subsequent reputation garnered by Mr. Burke, there could be a certain cynicism about the precise reasoning which informed the minister's concern. Of course, cynicism is easy. I don't support anyone knows where to find the levels of interest in oil exploratiuon in irish waters over this period?

As it turned out his concern was well founded. Even with the changes he made there was still no exploration activity until the change made to the tax rate in '92.

So, you're left with cynicism on the one hand but also with the reality that the changes he made weren't enough to interest the oil companies.

[Mitsui2]

And you know all this how exactly?.

Logic will do. In all my time on P.ie you have, under your changing idents, in your posts that I have read, a pretty much 100% record of supporting whatever the government line is at any given time, on any given subject, in a rather weary, opposing-views-are-so-silly tone.

This is why so many posters refer to your posts rather jeeringly. You are very, very obviously not a fool, and no imaginable government could get such unremitting support at every turn from any intelligent individual, however politically supportive they might be of the party in power. Therefore quite a few longtime posters clearly believe your expressed sentiments do not reflect an honest expression of your actual individual opinions, but stem rather from a decision to support government choices per se.

In other words, having read your posts under various noms de plume for a long time, I tend to view them as essentially the work of a propagandist with a very definte agenda rather than an expression of your individual opinion.

If this were not the case, tonic, I would most certainly not jeer at you as I sometimes do: I jeer at the persona you've adopted, not at you personally, because personae do not have a third dimension that individuals do, and it is that third dimension that is hurtable. If I thought for a moment my jeers were offending anything more personal than your authorial amour propre as creator of the cartoonish "HAL" or "tonic" or "TonyS" (the last is before my time, but you are popularly identified with him/her and the HAL/tonic voice is certainly interchangeable so I presume the TonyS one was too) I would immediately refrain.

You may well say this is all too airy-fairy for your notice but I think you know exactly what I mean.

[FakeViking]

Well done Malbekh, for shining a light on this stinking bucket of s*. As the saying goes, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Ireland needs to see the end of these self-interested, unaccountable spin meisters, you have done the state some service.

[Mitsui2]

Well done Malbekh, for shining a light on this stinking bucket of s*. As the saying goes, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Ireland needs to see the end of these self-interested, unaccountable spin meisters, you have done the state some service.

Hear hear!

Malbekh has both educated me and caused me to educate myself quite a bit in these matters.

I used to think Mr F was completely loathsome for different reasons.

What's basically changed is that my definition of "completely" has grown a lot bigger.

The bould Frank makes Liam Lawlor look like an amateur in the gouging field. Talk about fingers in pies!

[blanket]

Great post OP that crystallizes the questions surrounding the Shell contract and surrounding issues, not to mention the attempts at rehabilitating Fahey politically.

It's also very instructive to see which FF cheerleaders jump in and trot out the usual justifications.

Nothing to see here etc....

[cry freedom]

Well done Malbekh, for shining a light on this stinking bucket of s*. As the saying goes, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Ireland needs to see the end of these self-interested, unaccountable spin meisters, you have done the state some service.

Yes. I have always considered Malbekh's contributions fair, level headed and of lasting value.
If Carlsberg did posts,eh?