Should Fianna Failers be publically insulted or shunned?

[MayoFFer]

Well, the Nazi's won elections too, which isn't an excuse for what happened during their time in power. Saying FF aren't responsible for mismanagement or corruption on the basis that they were elected by the people is plain wrong.

To summarise, anyone supporting Fianna Fáil is either a direct beneficiary of FF patronage (in short corrupt), or a drooling inbred moron incapable of joining the dots to see the damage their incompetence and corruption has caused to the country.

As I am neither a beneficiary of FF patronage or a drooling inbred moron, then I hate to break the news to you, you're wrong.

[TommyO'Brien]

If not now, then when?

Starting with Bertie and his comic book, who should have cooper coins thrown at his feet whereever he goes (he needs the cash), Cowen should be ignored by all but the die hards, Coughlan cackled, Lenihan laughed at etc

But even ordinary members, whould feel the wrath of public anger, and asked;-
1) why they are still in the Party or still support it?
2) how do they characterise transferring €54,000,000,000 from taxpayers to bond holders, if it is not theft?
3) How did Ministers expect that limos is the normal way to travel?
4) Why was FAS allowed spend €1bn on itself when we had full employment?
5) Can they stand over the fact that nobody gets punished for incompetence or corruption?

Question them, mock them, sneer, isolate any Fianna Failer you come accross:
- here
- pub
- mass
- facebook
whatever.

If it was fgood enough for the Landlord class of the 19th century, it is good enough treatment for the self-serving class on the start of the 21st.

Oh dear god. Just when you think politics.ie has hit rock bottom, you get childish threads like this.

[NewGoldDream]

Saying FF aren't responsible for mismanagement or corruption on the basis that they were elected by the people is plain wrong.

I'm not sure anyone made that point. Did they?

To summarise, anyone supporting Fianna Fáil is either a direct beneficiary of FF patronage (in short corrupt), or a drooling inbred moron incapable of joining the dots to see the damage their incompetence and corruption has caused to the country.

That's just sheer and utter drivel. Laughable stuff.

But if it makes you feel intellectually superior, fair enough. Right on, I'm a moron. You're clever.

[Oldira1]

As I am neither a beneficiary of FF patronage or a drooling inbred moron, then I hate to break the news to you, you're wrong.

Obviously you are just plain misguided so.

[MayoFFer]

Obviously you are just plain stupid so.

No, while no genius I consider myself reasonably intelligent, have put that intelligence to working free of charge for many organisations over the years and to ensuring that I don't suffer from the superiority complex that some people seem to suffer from on here if somebody doesn't see their point of view.

[NewGoldDream]

I don't suffer from the superiority complex that some people seem to suffer from on here if somebody doesn't see their point of view.

A superiority complex is one thing, advocating concentration camps is a bit disturbing. It's all very Nietzschean.

[Oldira1]

No, while no genius I consider myself reasonably intelligent, have put that intelligence to working free of charge for many organisations over the years and to ensuring that I don't suffer from the superiority complex that some people seem to suffer from on here if somebody doesn't see their point of view.

Have you ever given a vote (1,2 or 3) to Beverly Flynn? If the answer is in the negative I will withdraw my comment.

[MayoFFer]

Have you ever given a vote (1,2 or 3) to Beverly Flynn? If the answer is in the negative I will withdraw my comment.

No, I have never been a fan of the Flynns, either father or daughter. She is treated with the civility I treat all people with, but she doesn't feature in my top preferences. Actively campaigned for her opponent at the time of her convention to stand in the bye election many moons ago.

[Delusional or careerist?]

Firstly, fair play for answer the questions.
Secondly, how the hell can you be in a party where you think, that:
a) Ministers expecting limos. Its a disgrace
b)FAS should never have had a budget that large... there wasn't proper oversight by the Minister
c) I am unhappy at the fact that Molloy could walk away from the mess with the golden handshake he did.
d) I don't agree with what he [Haughey] did but I don't see how it [the money he took] could have been got back.
e) The other three [Burke, Flynn and Ahern] are such a quagmire
f) abhorred that this [drink driving] was the one they got agitated about.
g) Anybody serving in any responsible position should have an up to date tax clearance cert. (hello?, Patrick Bartolomew Ahern does not have one and is being spoken about as President)
h) Rumour however has it that Ahern was aware as far back as the previous November that the trains was sliding off the rails. (WTF? He was told since 2004!!!!!!!!)

But this takes the biscuit:

I assume you have proof of this undeclared monies?? The electoral law in this country is pretty clear and pretty watertight and makes it very difficult for these huge amounts to float around undeclared as you suggest

FF failed to disclose thousands in donations | Irish Examiner
Donation to TDs, 1997 – 2008 – The Story


Full quotes below:

1) how do you characterise transferring €54,000,000,000 from taxpayers to bond holders, if it is not theft?
2) Do you defend Ministers' expectations of limos as the normal way to travel abroad?
3) Why was FAS allowed spend €1bn on itself when we had full employment?
4) Can they stand over the fact that nobody gets punished for incompetence or corruption?
5) Why did Fianna Fail not go after the monies diverted by Haughey, Ahern, Burke and Flynn from the Party to their own use?
6) Is lowering the drink driving limit that big an issue in the context of NAMA, €20bn+ deficit and the impending budget?
7) Should every FF member of Dail Eireann not be required to have an uptodate tax clearance cert?
8) Was the economy fine in April, 2008 when Ahern left (as he says it was)?
9) Are you happy with FF's management of the economy from 11/9/2001 to date?
10) Why does FF take money from rich people and corporations, and why is so much of it undeclared?

1) I am not an economist and as economists are divided on the issue themselves I cannot say whether whats happening is good or bad.
2) I have never at any stage defended Ministers expecting limos. Its a disgrace and needs to be done away with. Most embassies abroad have cars and accommodation and these should be used by the relevant Minister ( as they have been by Dermot Ahern )
3) FAS should never have had a budget that large at that time in the economy we then lived in, there wasn't proper oversight by the Minister or the relevant personnel in the department responsible for oversight
4) I am unhappy at the fact that Molloy could walk away from the mess with the golden handshake he did. As for the problems in the banks to build a proper case to jail people takes time. I certainly don't want anyone getting away because of knee jerk charges.
5) Where were they going to get the money from Haughey?? He owed the banks huge amounts, do you really think that Fianna Fail could have got any of its monies back from him? I don't agree with what he did but I don't see how it could have been got back. The other three are such a quagmire the burden of proof needed would have cost more to prove than the monies were worth.
6) I was relieved to see that Fianna Fail backbenchers can get agitated by some sort of Government Policy but abhorred that this was the one they got agitated about.
7) Anybody serving in any responsible position should have an up to date tax clearance cert.
8) Technically speaking the economy was fine, on paper at the time. Rumour however has it that Ahern was aware as far back as the previous November that the trains was sliding off the rails.
9) Fianna fail, like any government, made good decisions and bad decisions. I don't think I would write off every single thing they did as neither would I write off every single thing ever done by a Fine Gael led government.
10) I assume you have proof of this undeclared monies?? The electoral law in this country is pretty clear and pretty watertight and makes it very difficult for these huge amounts to float around undeclared as you suggest.

[Delusional or careerist?]

Oh dear god. Just when you think politics.ie has hit rock bottom, you get childish threads like this.

You have utterly missed the point.
No Fianna Failer will respond to a thread entitled "20 questions on why Nama is theft" or "Can any FF'er defend economic policy for the last 5 years" etc

FF people need to be drawn in a thread to be challanged (some of them are intelligent, if overly involved in groupthink).

I asked 5 very simple questions in the OP - I expanded on them later. Only one poster has had a stab at answering them.