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  1. #1511
    damus damus is offline
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    Originally Posted by hammer
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    Yes but it is an asset they buy at a huge discount when they are ready.
    Only if they can raise a mortgage and for most that will never be realizable. FG are planning to re-introduce that hair-brained scheme too....which will further deplete available social housing stock. Would you provide your tenant with a discount on the house purchase price or would you try to maximize on your return?
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  2. #1512
    Reasunach Reasunach is offline
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    Originally Posted by damus
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    Only if they can raise a mortgage and for most that will never be realizable. FG are planning to re-introduce that hair-brained scheme too....which will further deplete available social housing stock. Would you provide your tenant with a discount on the house purchase price or would you try to maximize on your return?
    Selling council housing stock is one of the main reasons that we don't have enough now. Of course if we had built replacements then that argument would be moot but that is the reality. Those still occupying Apollo House obviously have complex needs (hence the difficulty in meeting their demands) and they won't be solved by simply lobbing a house at them. Accommodation needs to be maintained and running a home involves responsibility. Are these people in a position to do things like pay their electricity bills, or ensure that rooms are ventilated when showering? There is no point in giving accommodation to someone who is simply going to let it rot around them. I speak from experience so I am not being harsh, just realistic.
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  3. #1513
    Myers Mimnagh Myers Mimnagh is offline

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    Originally Posted by redneck
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    No it is not all FG's fault. I think FF bear more of the blame. That said you put the blame on Sinn Féin in an early post. Like they had any influence on this situation. But Bertie Ahearne had the money to solve this in the 90's and 00's. But the builders refused to help him and he backed down. In my opinion.

    Get real pal, if you get stuck into substance abuse you are f****^*^ked, no point in blaming anyone but yourself.

    C'mon man.
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  4. #1514
    Disillusioned democrat Disillusioned democrat is online now
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    Originally Posted by good dog
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    I'm curious as to why government policy seems to be to not build social housing? Apart from the fact that any government building project costs ridiculous amounts of money (I heard cost of refurbishing flats in Dolphins barn are coming to 475,000 euro per flat) from the 50's on around the country there were decent sized and quality developments built that did not have any social problems so why has it completely stopped? It seems to be exactly the same situation in the Uk.
    The money to build is readily available to borrow and must surely be better value than renting from private landlords.
    A friend of mine has 4 one bed apartments in a nice part of the city centre rented to Dublin Corporation for 1250 per month each. A 3 bed in the same building is renting at 3,500 to a private individual, not on social welfare.

    Part of the homeless problem is the need for some people to be accommodated in the area they came from. They are not working so the corporation must compete in the rental market with some well paid working person for the limited bit of prime location living space. This situation will only get worse and worse as time progresses. Even paying 1250 a month for a one bed is cheaper than the corporation paying 140 a night for a hotel room.
    Now, that's part of the problem right there.

    No one needs to be housed where they come from - my kids won't be able to afford to buy a home anywhere near here, but they have no rights to a home here.

    The state needs to have the right to house people where it can best afford to, not where people would like to live.
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  5. #1515
    Straight up Straight up is offline

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    Originally Posted by RichardCameron
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    You're in a relationship with your ma, that's different.
    In relation to this post and post 1430. So effectively , a son, daughter, even as single or with their spouses and do NOT live with their parents where it applies to a single or one of their parents where a partnership is the case and where there is physical accomodation available are classed as homeless. Is that not their problem that they are homeless. How could a parent do that to their son or daughter?
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  6. #1516
    redneck redneck is offline
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    substance abuse, gambling, alcohol abuse, pornography, family breakdown can all cause problems. I am talking about a safety net for the people who fall into the trap. Most civilised countries have a safety net for the unfortunate to help them back on their feet.
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  7. #1517
    edifice. edifice. is offline
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    Originally Posted by redneck
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    substance abuse, gambling, alcohol abuse, pornography, family breakdown can all cause problems. I am talking about a safety net for the people who fall into the trap. Most civilised countries have a safety net for the unfortunate to help them back on their feet.
    But the question is this: what aspect of the Apollo action failed to understand how this safety net should be deployed?
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  8. #1518
    sic transit sic transit is offline
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    Originally Posted by Reasunach
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    Selling council housing stock is one of the main reasons that we don't have enough now. Of course if we had built replacements then that argument would be moot but that is the reality. Those still occupying Apollo House obviously have complex needs (hence the difficulty in meeting their demands) and they won't be solved by simply lobbing a house at them. Accommodation needs to be maintained and running a home involves responsibility. Are these people in a position to do things like pay their electricity bills, or ensure that rooms are ventilated when showering? There is no point in giving accommodation to someone who is simply going to let it rot around them. I speak from experience so I am not being harsh, just realistic.
    There's an absolute predictability to where this has probably ended up. Three weeks to find places and in typical Irish fashion still nothing done. But it does get them to what they wanted all along, lots of coverage of the battle against injustice, with loud protests and all that manning the barricades stuff. They have not been remotely competent and one would have to say the movement will most likely be very short-lived.
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  9. #1519
    sic transit sic transit is offline
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    Originally Posted by redneck
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    substance abuse, gambling, alcohol abuse, pornography, family breakdown can all cause problems. I am talking about a safety net for the people who fall into the trap. Most civilised countries have a safety net for the unfortunate to help them back on their feet.
    We do as well but homelessness is still a problem elsewhere too.
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  10. #1520
    Reasunach Reasunach is offline
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    Are there figures for the number of people who were rough sleepers despite Apollo House and the other facilities being available? Did the rough sleeper count ever hit zero in Dublin City over the weeks that Apollo House has been occupied? I would be surprised if this were the case as there will always be someone who falls through the cracks. We live in a democracy so we cannot force people to accept help. Otherwise there would be no-one on the streets, no-one in hotels, B&Bs etc and no empty ghost estates.
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