Mary Lou strongly opposes closed door to EU migration

[KeithM]

At least someone is looking out for the concerns of the Irish people in this regard:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 28607.html

The Government is moving closer to placing restrictions on people from Bulgaria and Romania coming to the Republic to work when both states join the EU on January 1st next year.

Tánaiste Michael McDowell signalled yesterday that Ireland would most likely introduce restrictions to protect its society and economy. Introducing restrictions would also prevent problems emerging with the common travel area between Britain and Ireland, he said.


"All the signals are that Ireland will not take a more liberal path to the UK because the consequences for the common travel area could be chaotic," Mr McDowell said when asked about indications that Britain would impose restrictions on workers from the new EU members.

Mr McDowell also said that Ireland had its own social and economic interests to look after in relation to the decision on whether to impose work permit restrictions or to open the labour market fully, as it did in May 2004 at the last EU enlargement.

"More than a quarter of a million personal public service (PPS) numbers have been taken up by people from the new member-states and that is in a state of just four million people . . . there are issues to be looked at," Mr McDowell told a meeting of EU justice ministers in Finland. Earlier this week, British home secretary John Reid indicated that Britain would impose restrictions on workers from Romania and Bulgaria.

Good News at last!

Finally finally somebody is listening.

However this is just a start. We really do now need to formulate and implement a comprehensive program of Immigration Control that has the support of the Irish people.

I certainly hope that Mary Lou will now have the moral courage to include opening the doors to the Bulgarians and Rumanians in her election platform and displayed on her posters in Dublin Central - but somehow I doubt it.

As much as I would like to give credit to McDowell for this, he is simply reacting to a similar move by the UK government. If they are going to restrict immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, then we would be crazy to open our doors. Several EU countries have still to accept immigrant from the E10 and indeed some have put back their entry dates even further.

I very much doubt that SF will be making much noise on this. They may have many serious faults, but stupidity isn't one of them.

[georgedillon]

There was an interesting insight on Irish life thrown up by RTE's Joe Duffy Show yesterday.

People were calling to tell about their experiences with their Polish "au pairs".

Of course, given the job descriptions mentioned, it was clear that the term "au pair" was being dishonestly used. What these people were talking about is their Polish maids.

As I listened, I was struck by how the middle and upper classes of Ireland are now exploiting poor women from Eastern Europe and the Phillippines in just as brutal a fashion as we read about in places like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The only thing missing is reports of sexual abuse, but who knows what is going on behing the genteel curtains of suburbia here.

But I was most struck by the fact that parties which claim to be of the left--New Sinn Fein, the Socialists etc., dance cheek to cheek with the Irish bourgeoisie. All agree in satisfying the enormous appetite of the Irish upper classes for the importation and exploitation of cheap labour from abroad.

Many of us who oppose Mass Immigration (including some who post here) are of the left. We scratch our heads at the sight of so-called irish leftist parties acting as cheerleaders for the bosses and landlords and giving ideological cover to exploitation and greed.

[padraig]

There was an interesting insight on Irish life thrown up by RTE's Joe Duffy Show yesterday.

People were calling to tell about their experiences with their Polish "au pairs".

Of course, given the job descriptions mentioned, it was clear that the term "au pair" was being dishonestly used. What these people were talking about is their Polish maids.

As I listened, I was struck by how the middle and upper classes of Ireland are now exploiting poor women from Eastern Europe and the Phillippines in just as brutal a fashion as we read about in places like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The only thing missing is reports of sexual abuse, but who knows what is going on behing the genteel curtains of suburbia here.

But I was most struck by the fact that parties which claim to be of the left--New Sinn Fein, the Socialists etc., dance cheek to cheek with the Irish bourgeoisie. All agree in satisfying the enormous appetite of the Irish upper classes for the importation and exploitation of cheap labour from abroad.

Many of us who oppose Mass Immigration (including some who post here) are of the left. We scratch our heads at the sight of so-called irish leftist parties acting as cheerleaders for the bosses and landlords and giving ideological cover to exploitation and greed.

georgedillon, were have Sinn Fein or the Socialist party ever called for the use of cheap labour, if anything thing they have called for the protection of all workers wether Irish or immigrant against exploitation. What is needed is for the government to enforce existing labour laws to protect workers, rather then people blaming immigrants for failures of the government.

[FutureTaoiseach]

There was an interesting insight on Irish life thrown up by RTE's Joe Duffy Show yesterday.

People were calling to tell about their experiences with their Polish "au pairs".

Of course, given the job descriptions mentioned, it was clear that the term "au pair" was being dishonestly used. What these people were talking about is their Polish maids.

As I listened, I was struck by how the middle and upper classes of Ireland are now exploiting poor women from Eastern Europe and the Phillippines in just as brutal a fashion as we read about in places like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The only thing missing is reports of sexual abuse, but who knows what is going on behing the genteel curtains of suburbia here.

But I was most struck by the fact that parties which claim to be of the left--New Sinn Fein, the Socialists etc., dance cheek to cheek with the Irish bourgeoisie. All agree in satisfying the enormous appetite of the Irish upper classes for the importation and exploitation of cheap labour from abroad.

Many of us who oppose Mass Immigration (including some who post here) are of the left. We scratch our heads at the sight of so-called irish leftist parties acting as cheerleaders for the bosses and landlords and giving ideological cover to exploitation and greed.

georgedillon, were have Sinn Fein or the Socialist party ever called for the use of cheap labour, if anything thing they have called for the protection of all workers wether Irish or immigrant against exploitation. What is needed is for the government to enforce existing labour laws to protect workers, rather then people blaming immigrants for failures of the government.

But Padraig, whether you like it or not you will never get a situation where people from poor countries will generally work for the same rates as Irish people. The reality is that despite the minimum-wage legislation in place, most Irish people work for higher than the minimum-wage so wages will still be dragged down. These people are desperate and glad to have any job so they will be more attractive to Irish bosses. There is no legal way of dealing with this issue other than to prevent them working here. Also the schools cannot cope with the numbers of children immigrants are bringing in already so how are they going to by importing more?

The "No Nations No Borders" brigade need to get a life.

"Sinn Fein" is supposed to mean "Ourselves Alone". Ironic isn't it?

[Lafontaine]

To georgedillon:

Should the irish have stopped imigration to america in the early stages? As they were the once who cleaned the footpaths and irish women filled the streets as prostitutes.

Its the very same system that causes people to migrate from their home countries as it is the same system that expoits them over here as cheap labour.

[padraig]

But Padraig, whether you like it or not you will never get a situation where people from poor countries will generally work for the same rates as Irish people. The reality is that despite the minimum-wage legislation in place, most Irish people work for higher than the minimum-wage so wages will still be dragged down. These people are desperate and glad to have any job so they will be more attractive to Irish bosses. There is no legal way of dealing with this issue other than to prevent them working here. Also the schools cannot cope with the numbers of children immigrants are bringing in already so how are they going to by importing more?

The "No Nations No Borders" brigade need to get a life.

FutureTaoiseach, If current legisation to protect workers is not enforced and strengthened where necessary then immigrants will be forced to accept wages lower then the minimun-wage, by employers, this could result in dis-placement of Irish workers, so instead of blaming immigrants for this we should pressurise the government to ensure that all workers are protected as a right regardless of them being Irish or immigrant. That is what Sinn Fein is calling for. If employers know they can't exploit immigrant workers then there is no incentive for them to use them, unless that is the only way to fill a skills shortage.

As for your claim that their is no legal way of dealing with this issue, that is bull************************, what is needed is tougher enforcement of Labour laws and more inspection of workplaces to ensure that all employees are recieving their proper entitlements, in regards to wages, working hours, health & safety etc.

[georgedillon]

Lafon:

"Should the irish have stopped imigration to america in the early stages?"

I don't know, but I bet the American Indians wish they had clamped down on immigration from Day One!

GD


" If you think Mass Immigration is a good idea, ask a Palestinian"

[FutureTaoiseach]

But Padraig, whether you like it or not you will never get a situation where people from poor countries will generally work for the same rates as Irish people. The reality is that despite the minimum-wage legislation in place, most Irish people work for higher than the minimum-wage so wages will still be dragged down. These people are desperate and glad to have any job so they will be more attractive to Irish bosses. There is no legal way of dealing with this issue other than to prevent them working here. Also the schools cannot cope with the numbers of children immigrants are bringing in already so how are they going to by importing more?

The "No Nations No Borders" brigade need to get a life.

FutureTaoiseach, If current legisation to protect workers is not enforced and strengthened where necessary then immigrants will be forced to accept wages lower then the minimun-wage, by employers, this could result in dis-placement of Irish workers, so instead of blaming immigrants for this we should pressurise the government to ensure that all workers are protected as a right regardless of them being Irish or immigrant. That is what Sinn Fein is calling for. If employers know they can't exploit immigrant workers then there is no incentive for them to use them, unless that is the only way to fill a skills shortage.

As for your claim that their is no legal way of dealing with this issue, that is ********, what is needed is tougher enforcement of Labour laws and more inspection of workplaces to ensure that all employees are recieving their proper entitlements, in regards to wages, working hours, health & safety etc.

You are missing the point - that even the current minimum-wage represents a sharp fall compared to the salaries of many existing Irish workers. Hence, giving immigrants jobs for the minimum-wage only amounts to another incentive for displacement of Irish workers. It is difficult to see how legislation could deal with this problem. Remember that 91% of Irish staff in Irish Ferries were laid off to be replaced with Latvians working only on the minimum-wage.

I blame immigration as a process rather than immigrants as people. We need to stop personalising this especially the Left. The National Economic and Social Council (NESC) admitted yesterday that large inflows of cheap labour could drag the economy down and reduce living standards. SF are out of touch with their own support-base on immigration and risk losing votes unless they cut it out with this "let them in/let them stay" blarney.

[georgedillon]

FT, thanks for answering that question--you have more patience with the Mass Immgration crowd than I do. Take Padraig for example:

"what is needed is tougher enforcement of Labour laws and more inspection of "

This shows that Padraig is, like so many of the Young Sinn Fein crowd, posting from Cloud Cuckoo Land.

If they had any savoir faire of how the real world works, they'd know that an unfortunate unemployed man or woman in Latvia or Poland or Bangla Desh will slaver at the mouth at the prospect of working for sub-minimum wages in Ireland. Wake up, Padraig!! Why do you think the capitalist class has an insatiable appetite for cheap labour? Or are you naive enough to think that the Irish capitalist class-- a class so eloquently excoriated by Larkin and Connolly-- is really only interested in promoting "diversity" when they go kerbcrawling the world for cheap labour?

I'm growing more and more convinced that most of the Young SF crowd never had a real job.
GD

[padraig]

But Padraig, whether you like it or not you will never get a situation where people from poor countries will generally work for the same rates as Irish people. The reality is that despite the minimum-wage legislation in place, most Irish people work for higher than the minimum-wage so wages will still be dragged down. These people are desperate and glad to have any job so they will be more attractive to Irish bosses. There is no legal way of dealing with this issue other than to prevent them working here. Also the schools cannot cope with the numbers of children immigrants are bringing in already so how are they going to by importing more?

The "No Nations No Borders" brigade need to get a life.

FutureTaoiseach, If current legisation to protect workers is not enforced and strengthened where necessary then immigrants will be forced to accept wages lower then the minimun-wage, by employers, this could result in dis-placement of Irish workers, so instead of blaming immigrants for this we should pressurise the government to ensure that all workers are protected as a right regardless of them being Irish or immigrant. That is what Sinn Fein is calling for. If employers know they can't exploit immigrant workers then there is no incentive for them to use them, unless that is the only way to fill a skills shortage.

As for your claim that their is no legal way of dealing with this issue, that is ********, what is needed is tougher enforcement of Labour laws and more inspection of workplaces to ensure that all employees are recieving their proper entitlements, in regards to wages, working hours, health & safety etc.

You are missing the point - that even the current minimum-wage represents a sharp fall compared to the salaries of many existing Irish workers. Hence, giving immigrants jobs for the minimum-wage only amounts to another incentive for displacement of Irish workers. It is difficult to see how legislation could deal with this problem. Remember that 91% of Irish staff in Irish Ferries were laid off to be replaced with Latvians working only on the minimum-wage.

I'am not saying that immigrant should have to accept the mininum wage, they should be payed the going rate for the trade/position they are working in, so if someone is employed in the construction industry for example they recieve the standard rate same as other workers in the same trade/position, regardless of them being Irish or immigrant.