"This is bad, but Lithuania is worse" movement of labor failing citizens

[pete2]

...a squalid makeshift camp. Clothes and blankets hang in trees, and the ground is strewn with discarded lavatory *****paper and the detritus of daily life.

..Tory MP Stewart Jackson said: “It’s an appalling state of affairs and the result of New Labour’s disgraceful open-door immigration policy.” ..The jobless migrants, who are unable to claim benefits, rely on handouts for food and clothing. A barbecue was evident, but several of those there admitted their main meal of the day would be bread and jam.

Yet, despite the third world conditions, many said they choose to stay because they are better off here than in their native countries.

http://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.u...p-in-the-woods
According to EU law which government has responsibility to clean this mess up? Is notice being taken of this in Brussels? I don't believe this is what people were promised when freedom of movement was sold- the poor from one end of the continent make it to the west then squat. Is it possible for the Irish government to revisit and amend the terms of EU freedom of movement that it agreed to, placing a limit on more migrants migrating?

[perprojustice]

According to EU law which government has responsibility to clean this mess up? Is notice being taken of this in Brussels? I don't believe this is what people were promised when freedom of movement was sold- the poor from one end of the continent make it to the west then squat. Is it possible for the Irish government to revisit and amend the terms of EU freedom of movement that it agreed to, placing a limit on more migrants migrating?

The migrants should not have migrated without making plans. They had freedom to move but likewise they had freedom to stay where they were.

Ireland is one country that by its history cannot dictate migration suppression terms.

[eurosceptic]

We could withdraw from the free movement of people (which i have long advocated) under the current terms of our membership. This would have reciprocal effects though.
If lisbon passes our only remedy is to withdraw from the EU.

[Staropramen]

Yet, despite the third world conditions, many said they choose to stay because they are better off here than in their native countries.

This is the key point in the article, many still do continue to come here, and will continue to do so.

[Staropramen]

The migrants should not have migrated without making plans. They had freedom to move but likewise they had freedom to stay where they were.

Ireland is one country that by its history cannot dictate migration suppression terms.

Every nation on the planet has had a history of migration.

The Irish government has a responsibility to look after its own citizens first. Nobody else. The fact of the matter is this, we cannot create jobs for our unemployed, never mind eastern europes. Over 10,000 more applied for PPS numbers this year alone, I may add. Time to end the fallacy of free movement of labour from the new accession states.

[pete2]

The migrants should not have migrated without making plans. They had freedom to move but likewise they had freedom to stay where they were.

Ireland is one country that by its history cannot dictate migration suppression terms.

The plan appears to be to escape the desperate poverty of their home. If they can have their child placed in school, receive child benefit, and the chance of social housing then its a step up, for them. I am really not concerned with their aspirations. I am concerned for the impact on my own people and this society.

Comparisons with some of our own escaping depression, famine and political instability do exist here no doubt but two things don't wash-

• Ireland is not like the destinations Irish have gone to in the past.
• Eastern europe is not famine times Ireland, work exists there, adequate to support people but they just want to earn more money in Ireland, take advantage of government subsidized low income jobs, take advantage of government subsidized training, avail of social housing, education, health, access to soup kitchens/charity etc.

Yes there is a temporary upside for business but that is now gone. I see no upside for Irish society or Irish workers in this deal now because freedom of movement is essentially just importing poverty and problems for Irish people. When confronted with similar concerns traditional destinations for Irish workers limited the numbers coming- we have no such controls due to EU freedom of movement.

The total risk of importing this never ending supply of poverty to Ireland is that we will impoverish our own citizens via job losses and scarcity of resources. This is why I am asking who has the responsibility to pay for these impoverished immigrants? Surely the costs can be clawed back from the government whos duty it is to care for them? How can it be right that poverty stricken people migrate here with no chance of work and throw themselves on the mercy of public opinion and society?

Ireland is already in the throws of a new emigration wave. These desperately poor people are not leaving as we were told they would. Who's responsibility are they?

Between Jan 2006 and Oct 2008, 30,282 more people arrived at one of the seven airports than left. This trend has reversed however. While 35,453 entered the Republic of Ireland between Jan 06 and Oct 06, and 72,936 between Nov 06 and Oct 07, 78,106 people left between Nov 07 and Oct 08. That is, eighty thousand people took a one-way flight, before the scale of the recession was clear. Of those 78,106 people, 58,980 left for Great Britain, 11,018 for Germany, 6,750 for Poland, 6,409 for the Czech Republic, and 4,161 for the Baltic countries. Between Nov 07 and Oct 08, 4,164 people came from Italy, 3,966 from France, and 2,456 from Hungary.

Notice the small numbers returning to eastern europe and similar numbers entering from migrant hubs of Italy and France.

The Irish Economy

[pete2]

The migrants should not have migrated without making plans. They had freedom to move but likewise they had freedom to stay where they were.

Ireland is one country that by its history cannot dictate migration suppression terms.

The plan appears to be to escape the desperate poverty of their home. If they can have their child placed in school, receive child benefit, and the chance of social housing then its a step up, for them. I am really not concerned with their aspirations. I am concerned for the impact on my own people and this society.

Comparisons with some of our own escaping depression, famine and political instability do exist here no doubt but two things don't wash-

• Ireland is not like the destinations Irish have gone to in the past. Ireland is small, it is not (contrary to popular opinion), rich. Irelands economy is in a deep recession (although not officially yet its anticipated).
• Eastern europe is not famine times Ireland, work exists in eastern europe, adequate to support people but they just want to earn more money in Ireland, take advantage of government subsidized low income jobs, take advantage of government subsidized training, avail of social housing, education, health, access to soup kitchens/charity etc.

Yes there is a temporary upside for business but that is now gone. I see no upside for Irish society or Irish workers in this deal now because freedom of movement is essentially just importing poverty and problems for Irish people. When confronted with similar concerns traditional destinations for Irish workers limited the numbers coming- we have no such controls due to EU freedom of movement.

The total risk of importing this never ending supply of poverty to Ireland is that we will impoverish our own citizens via job losses and scarcity of resources. This is why I am asking who has the responsibility to pay for these impoverished immigrants? Surely the costs can be clawed back from the government whos duty it is to care for them? How can it be right that poverty stricken people migrate here with no chance of work and throw themselves on the mercy of public opinion and society?

Ireland is already in the throws of a new emigration wave. These desperately poor people are not leaving as we were told they would. Who's responsibility are they?

Between Jan 2006 and Oct 2008, 30,282 more people arrived at one of the seven airports than left. This trend has reversed however. While 35,453 entered the Republic of Ireland between Jan 06 and Oct 06, and 72,936 between Nov 06 and Oct 07, 78,106 people left between Nov 07 and Oct 08. That is, eighty thousand people took a one-way flight, before the scale of the recession was clear. Of those 78,106 people, 58,980 left for Great Britain, 11,018 for Germany, 6,750 for Poland, 6,409 for the Czech Republic, and 4,161 for the Baltic countries. Between Nov 07 and Oct 08, 4,164 people came from Italy, 3,966 from France, and 2,456 from Hungary.

Notice the small numbers returning to eastern europe and similar numbers entering from migrant hubs of Italy and France.

The Irish Economy

[Pauli]

The plan appears to be to escape the desperate poverty of their home. If they can have their child placed in school, receive child benefit, and the chance of social housing then its a step up, for them. I am really not concerned with their aspirations. I am concerned for the impact on my own people and this society.

Comparisons with some of our own escaping depression, famine and political instability do exist here no doubt but two things don't wash-

• Ireland is not like the destinations Irish have gone to in the past. Ireland is small, it is not (contrary to popular opinion), rich. Irelands economy is in a deep recession (although not officially yet its anticipated).
• Eastern europe is not famine times Ireland, work exists in eastern europe, adequate to support people but they just want to earn more money in Ireland, take advantage of government subsidized low income jobs, take advantage of government subsidized training, avail of social housing, education, health, access to soup kitchens/charity etc.

Yes there is a temporary upside for business but that is now gone. I see no upside for Irish society or Irish workers in this deal now because freedom of movement is essentially just importing poverty and problems for Irish people. When confronted with similar concerns traditional destinations for Irish workers limited the numbers coming- we have no such controls due to EU freedom of movement.

The total risk of importing this never ending supply of poverty to Ireland is that we will impoverish our own citizens via job losses and scarcity of resources. This is why I am asking who has the responsibility to pay for these impoverished immigrants? Surely the costs can be clawed back from the government whos duty it is to care for them? How can it be right that poverty stricken people migrate here with no chance of work and throw themselves on the mercy of public opinion and society?

Ireland is already in the throws of a new emigration wave. These desperately poor people are not leaving as we were told they would. Who's responsibility are they?

Notice the small numbers returning to eastern europe and similar numbers entering from migrant hubs of Italy and France.

The Irish Economy

"These desperately poor people are not leaving as we were told they would"

Who told you they would??? Biffo? Bertie?? Harney?? Why would you believe any of these, even if they did say such a thing??

This, in fact, is what Mary Harney had to say about immigration in 1999.

"Fresh thinking will also be needed in the area of immigration policy. For decades - centuries even - the Irish were cast in the role of emigrants, and right up to the 1980s our people were forced to travel abroad in search of a future.

All that has changed now: our former emigrants are returning home and we welcome them. But we must be prepared to welcome others as well. Immigrants from other countries can greatly enrich the social, cultural and economic life of Ireland in the years ahead.

It is in our own economic self-interest that we adopt a more open attitude to immigration. One only has to look at how much immigrants - many of them Irish - have contributed to countries like Australia, Canada and the United States to see how much we have to gain.

But this should not be merely about self-interest. A mature and prosperous society should be a welcoming society. We should be prepared to show the same open door to others as was shown to us in times past.

I believe that we need to develop a reasonable and responsible immigration policy that will allow people to come here and make a real contribution to the life of this country. And I believe that we in Ireland will have to develop the kind of open and modern society that is capable of absorbing, accepting and valuing immigrants from other countries."


Nothing in there about going home.

The full text

DETE - Public Relations - Remarks by Tánaiste Mary Harney at the Encounter Symposium “Managing Our Economies” in the Berkeley Court Hotel, Dublin on Friday 29th October, 1999


I will leave it to others to judge whether "a reasonable and responsible immigration policy" was introduced. In my view, no policy at all was introduced because, as with so many other things, this government is entirely reactive and not pro-active and, in the final analysis, couldn't be arsed.

[ballot stuffer]

According to EU law which government has responsibility to clean this mess up? Is notice being taken of this in Brussels? I don't believe this is what people were promised when freedom of movement was sold- the poor from one end of the continent make it to the west then squat. Is it possible for the Irish government to revisit and amend the terms of EU freedom of movement that it agreed to, placing a limit on more migrants migrating?

Interesting, could you link to the full article?

[pete2]

Interesting, could you link to the full article?

My apologies, I forgot to put the article in, its now in OP.