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About LinkBacksCan anyone explain to me what would happen to agriculture in this country if subsidies were stopped as of now?
Both for and against arguments are welcome.
Can anyone explain to me what would happen to agriculture in this country if subsidies were stopped as of now?
Both for and against arguments are welcome.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when creating them
i come from a farming backround, have an education in farming and support a political party that is seen as pro farming, however im glad that subsidies are ending, i believe it will mean less farmers and bigger farmers, there is no other industry in the world that is as subsidised as farming and all it is doing is hurting countries abroad. i believe the reason it will not till 2013 is that they are trying to give farmers time to sort out there own situations.
i know it will cost jobs however that is the price we pay for competition in the market
Madness, crazy, the country will come to a stand still! Can you imagine all the tractors out protesting to Dublin?!
In seriousness though, payments couldnt be stopped over a short period, time needs to be given to adjust to the "shock" factor!
As it is farmers get the Single Farm payment, this will get smaller every year and eventually there will be no payments, (not sure of dates) This will be taking place over the next few years to give farmers a better chance to produce quality products rather than quantity. (not sure how milk producers fair out?)
No doubt payments have helped farmers enormously over the years, but quality has suffered, now farmers will need to produce quality products to get high prices.
If you recall the original idea was to balance production and consumption - the Manscholte plan - However, it was fiddled with by pols of all colours and stripes all over Europe, so we end up with the mess we have.Originally Posted by the big M
If we didn't have it - an we will have some 'modification' in 2013, then Ireland, as the only country in the 25 or the 30 which can produce two crops of grass without effort, 99 years out of a 100, should be able to produce quality meat, 100% traceable, guaranteed quality, competitive to the Uraguayans and Brazilians, but ONLY, if we start now to put in place the schemes to achieve the image we need. These would include eliminating the 'factory' mentality in farming, i.e. mass production, cheating by using angel dust, etc., prices controlled by 'the factories' and McDo, on the hoof exports and half processed export of sides to mainland Europe supermarkets. Added value based on a recognised and appreciated quality product is the name of the game.
Oh, I known that this is the stated policy, but is it being followed??
The Irish horse breeding industry is the model we need, WITHOUT the Mc Creevey subsidies....
BTW, the scheme I outlined needs us to police the production in Brazil, etc., and vice versa, to ensure we all play by the same rules.
Bye, Barry
give farmers a better chance to produce quality products rather than quantity.
While i am sure that farmers producing quality produce is a worthwhile goal in itself, i am not sure why anybody thinks that this will provide any salvation for the vast majority of farmers in the forthcoming situation.
The four most important farming sectors (in terms of farming numbers employed) are milk production, beef, barley and lamb production.
Personally, i do not see any huge market for a premium, (ie, higher priced) superior quality product in any of those sectors.
Obviously there is a small and growing matket for high quality organic cheese, beef, etc., but not enough. The main trend is for ever cheaper (but of acceptable quality) beef, milk, vegetables etc.
Other countries are better equipped for growing organic vegetables than ourselves, so i do not see a huge amount of growth there.
I can see a few strategies for the farming lobby for the next 15 years or so, though.
1) For the farming sector to lobby for countries importing to the EU to have the same regime as regards record-keeping etc. as European farmers have to do, before they will be allowed to export to the EU. This should keep out Argentinian/Brazilian beef etc for a decade or two as those countries do not have the infrastructure to keep records as we do. With any luck for the farming sector there will be a frew more foot-and-mouth and BSE scares from South America in the next few years which would soften up the EU public for such a regime.
Obviously keeping out New Zealand lamb and USA beef might require more ingenuity, but i think that most US beef is already banned because of 'angel dust'. so it probably can be done.
Perhaps the farming lobby could try insist that countries exporting to the EU should have to implement the nitrates directive (or some such similar pseudo-environmental nonsense) in their own countries. I think that for one would completely screw the US beef producers for a start.
2) The farmers are already demanding extra compensation for ramblers etc. to be allowed on their land. Due to the big subsidies farmers get already, this demand has been gotten short shrift from the public at large thus far. But as subsidies are phased out there seems to be scope for some extension of them here, articularly for farms in environmentally sensitive areas or tourist areas of the West (where many of the smaller, less viable farms are).
Farmers can argue that environmentally based subsidies for such areas should be retained, and i can see an increase in support for this as the urbanised population sees much larger, more mechanised farms taking over in certain areas which are suited for it, such as Co. Meath.
3) They could, by playing the poor mouth, get certain derogations from the planning laws, (actualy this has happened already) to make it easier to sell sites for houses or small industrial concerns, and so make more money from their assets in that way.
Where did u get that??WE have some of the best produce in Europe. Our beef is secont to none!
Very confused
I agree with that, we do have a lot of good quality beef now, but in the past emphasis was on quantity, we also had farmers buying and breeding animals crossed with, say the holiestin freisan (forgive the spelling!)Where did u get that??
This particular animal is of low quality and in a way ruined our quality beef animals. Subs compensated for the favt that these animals brought a lower price. We always had farmers who did and still will produce better quality animals.
[quote=the big M]I agree with that, we do have a lot of good quality beef now, but in the past emphasis was on quantity, we also had farmers buying and breeding animals crossed with, say the holiestin freisan (forgive the spelling!)Where did u get that??
This particular animal is of low quality and in a way ruined our quality beef animals. Subs compensated for the favt that these animals brought a lower price. We always had farmers who did and still will produce better quality animals.[/quote:15t5n62r]
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Fair comment. I didnt know about the holiestin freisan scenario. I thought there were certain accepted standards of "Crossing" that had to be maintained? Can these animals produce bulkier beef at a lower cost (and quality)??
There are very high standards for pedigree breeding. Holiestien was crossed with friesian dairy cows leading to "thinner" and less well framed offspring. the idea was to have more calves pesumably. Usually no matter what amount of feeding meal, grass etc, these animals only reached a poor grade when killed out. The premiums compensated for this.
Now we have a problem with too many of these animals bred in with the higher quality animal types.
Yea, i see what u mean. But i think we are both missing the point. I suppose the end of the subsidies comes at a time when greater EU competition is warrented with the introduction of the Eastern farming markets. If this was simply a quality problem then would that not be sorted by a little bit of friendly EU regulation?? Might be hard to get consensus EU wide though?>??There are very high standards for pedigree breeding. Holiestien was crossed with friesian dairy cows leading to "thinner" and less well framed offspring. the idea was to have more calves pesumably. Usually no matter what amount of feeding meal, grass etc, these animals only reached a poor grade when killed out. The premiums compensated for this.
Now we have a problem with too many of these animals bred in with the higher quality animal types.
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