Another Eurosceptic "myth" turns out to be true

[Watcher1]

Watcher i think it is an important point. This is exactly the sort of thing thats downplayed before a referendum and something for which there is "no plan" or "no budget". While i concede there are bigger issues at stake i do think all the angles need to be covered. It is a big issue for me though.

This is exactly the sort of thing the Yes camp would do. Come up with a rant about something insignificant presumably from the no side to try and show up the no side as a bunch of loons. You sound like a loon banging on about the loss of the harp on the Irish passport, as if that was a reason to vote no. Jesus man think before you write.

[forest]

ES just once i would like to see you quote a story that is taken from anyother source other than an British/English anti eu paper

[Earnest]

The text of bruno's blog is here. He is far more concerned with the personal freedom and security elements rather than the prospect of the common colour and symbols.
"Is the European Union going to strip your passport of all symbols of the Crown? The answer is no. Unless of course Gordon Brown insists it is so or if the French were to give up the emblem of their proud republic, the Germans their imperial eagle and everyone else their own fiercely guarded national symbols.


Will the British passport be replaced with EU passports?

It is simply not going to happen. The awful truth about EU passports is much worse. Under the new Lisbon Treaty there are new powers to create truly EU passports and ID cards. These will not be about superficial trappings and trimmings such as the Crown symbol and all that Lion and Unicorn stuff but the gritty reality of growing ID surveillance demands from and between states across Europe, and beyond.

The legend of the EU's evil intent to scrap national passport symbols is a potent one, for all it is complete cobblers. Over on EU Referendum, Richard North unravels and puts into perspective the latest stories about Foreign Office plans (after a non-binding European Commission suggestion) to include in passports a sticker telling Brits they can avail themselves of other EU consulates and embassies in the event of a crisis.

But the behind the scenes and your passport cover there is a lot going on with our ID documents. Now fitted with biometrics and microchips, all done to exacting, existing standards set at the EU and Trans-Atlantic level, there is lot, lot more to the modern passport than archaic heraldry or Royal flummery about "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State".

Today's ID cards and passport have a simple objective, surveillance, one that is shared by all EU member states and, importantly, in these post-9/11 days the United States.

Writing in the newspaper today, Philip Johnston explains what the new ID era is for: "The answer has nothing to do with security, any more than the presence of CCTV cameras everywhere has anything to do with stopping crime, as even senior police officers now concede. It is about political control. The state wants to know where you are, and those who run it have always believed it has a right to know, but have usually been beaten back by Parliament."

As I have written about here, the EU is now one of the places (conveniently free of scrutiny and accountability) where the latest in biometric controls are being dreamt up. This is with the UK's enthusiastic support. Britain's own "e-Borders" is a trailblazer and there is more to come.

A little known element to the new Lisbon Treaty quietly drops old safeguards that specifically ruled out an EU dimension to ID cards and passports (the two are increasingly interchangeable).

Here is the detail. Part two, article 18 of the Nice Treaty states:
"18, 1) Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in this Treaty and by the measures adopted to give it effect.
"18, 2) If action by the Community should prove necessary to attain this objective and this Treaty has not provided the necessary powers, the Council may adopt provisions with a view to facilitating the exercise of the rights referred to in paragraph 1."

After a flaming row in Nice and British insistence, the following caveat was added much to the chagrin of the Commission and most other countries.

Article 18, 3 declares: "Paragraph 2 shall not apply to provisions on passports, identity cards, residence permits or any other such document".

This has now been ditched. In a silent U-turn, British officials let it go. What was a red line for Tony Blair in 2000 was no longer a red line for either Mr Blair or Mr Brown last year.

Article 17, of the Lisbon Treaty states:
"Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia: the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States... "

Then tucked in Article 62 is the change.
"If action by the Union should prove necessary to facilitate the exercise of the right referred to in Article 17(2)(a), and if the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt provisions concerning passports, identity cards, residence permits or any other such document. The Council shall act unanimously after consulting the European Parliament."

This contribution is confused because Eurosceptic has not previewed it to check where the inverted commas should be. However, the paragraph that I've ended with is the relevant one. Any decision to have uniform passports is subject to national veto. Everybody has to agree. Well, they could do that anyway, Lisbon treaty or no Lisbon treaty.

[He3]

Article 17, of the Lisbon Treaty states:
"Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia: the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States... "

Then tucked in Article 62 is the change.
"If action by the Union should prove necessary to facilitate the exercise of the right referred to in Article 17(2)(a), and if the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt provisions concerning passports, identity cards, residence permits or any other such document. The Council shall act unanimously after consulting the European Parliament."

A question:

Does this mean that under Lisbon the Council gets powers (or the scope to give itself powers) in this area of passports, ID cards and the like that it does not have under the existing treaties?

[eurosceptic]

Watcher this is important to some of us on the no side. The switch to burgundy and the european title happened post-SEA without any warning it was on the cards. Passports are part of national identity for many of us. What this thread is raising is what hidden surprises there might be in lisbon. What will we be told in 3-5 years time is that we voted for lisbon.
Yes there are much bigger issues particularly militarisation and giving up our veto on justice policy but they are not the only issues.

[Risteard]

Not only should a single EU-inspired passport be avoided at all costs, but the ridiculous burgundy colour of Free State passports should be rescinded for the right and proper green colour, as should all mention of the EU. The EU is not a state and as such does not belong on passports.

In fact, the EU doesn't belong in existence whatsoever.

[Earnest]

Watcher this is important to some of us on the no side. The switch to burgundy and the european title happened post-SEA without any warning it was on the cards. Passports are part of national identity for many of us. What this thread is raising is what hidden surprises there might be in lisbon. What will we be told in 3-5 years time is that we voted for lisbon.
Yes there are much bigger issues particularly militarisation and giving up our veto on justice policy but they are not the only issues.

It does not seem to have occurred to Eurosceptic that at the moment the EU could decide to give us all yellow passports with green spots. He may regret that we voted for the SEA, but that's life.

I repeat: the Irish government can veto the idea of a single European passport.

[forest]

as along as i can travel freely around Europe with my passport i don't care if the are bright neon blue and plays Oh to Joy when you open it

[He3]

Any answers to my question greatly appreciated...

Article 17, of the Lisbon Treaty states:
"Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia: the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States... "

Then tucked in Article 62 is the change.
"If action by the Union should prove necessary to facilitate the exercise of the right referred to in Article 17(2)(a), and if the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt provisions concerning passports, identity cards, residence permits or any other such document. The Council shall act unanimously after consulting the European Parliament."

A question:

Does this mean that under Lisbon the Council gets powers (or the scope to give itself powers) in this area of passports, ID cards and the like that it does not have under the existing treaties?

[ibis]

Any answers to my question greatly appreciated...

Article 17, of the Lisbon Treaty states:
"Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia: the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States... "

Then tucked in Article 62 is the change.
"If action by the Union should prove necessary to facilitate the exercise of the right referred to in Article 17(2)(a), and if the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt provisions concerning passports, identity cards, residence permits or any other such document. The Council shall act unanimously after consulting the European Parliament."

A question:

Does this mean that under Lisbon the Council gets powers (or the scope to give itself powers) in this area of passports, ID cards and the like that it does not have under the existing treaties?

Amazingly enough, that question boils down to "are the nations of Europe, acting jointly, able to make joint rules on passports". I think it answers itself.