Another Eurosceptic "myth" turns out to be true

[setanta]

You just don't get how facts and arguments work do you?

Your thread title says: "Another Eurosceptic "myth" turns out to be true"

Your OP says:

While this is an old article it proves that there is pressure for a single EU passport. Brussles planned new passports with sky blue covers and the ring of stars instead of national emblems. It was to be sold as "avoiding confusion in airports".
It is pertinent in the context of lisbon as bruno waterfield from the telegraph has expressed concerns that this will happen if the treaty is implemented.

You adduced in support of these uttlery specious claims a plainly barmy article in The Torygraph from 2001.

However, you also adduced a more recent blog by Bruno Waterfield which says that these claims are false, "simply not going to happen" and, my favourite, "complete cobblers."

Having been shown to be completely wrong, even on the evidence that you yourself offered, you're now drifting off into some other nonsense. This is why I have repeatedly pointed out your lies about Lisbon and the EU and called you on your dishonest attacks on the EU.

[FutureTaoiseach]

To be quite frank, I don't really think the emblem on a passport matters a damn to national sovereignty compared to decisions about where power is exercised. People on both sides of the debate get far to excited about symbols and not about real issues.

But much more importantly, I take huge exception to your claim that the judgement related to marriages of convenience. The vast bulk of people affected by the law were in normal loving marriages. Personally, I can think of one very good friend (a British citizen) who was on the verge of leaving Ireland because of it - this a man who had lived here for several years and was employing 3 Irish citizens. The implication that it only affects sham marriages and that the EU is promoting these sham marriages is presumably a sign that we're going to see the race card played in Lisbon II?

The problem is that the law was being abused and is being abused by bogus marriage-tourists using the system to gain residency here. The govt released statistics on the marriages to non-EU spouses, and found a level of Latvian-Pakistani marriages that were just too high to be a coincidence, as well as a huge proportion of the marriages involving people here on expired student visas or work-permits. It may not have only affected sham-marriages, but the Irish law denying automatic residency-rights is necessary to prevent sham marriages being used to circumvent Irish and by extension EU immigration laws. I firmly believe that a solution can be found to crack down on sham-marriages being used for immigration-purposes while at the same time catering for non-sham marriage couples with non-EU spouses. But it cannot be credibly denied that there is a serious problem here. Jim Cusack has reported on this matter in the Indo over the years, including a story on Pakistanis paying Latvian women thousands of euros to marry them so they can get residency here. We sometimes here the Catholic right talk about the need for marriage not to be undermined. Well then, they should support measures to crack down on bogus-marriages, as plainly it does undermine the institution of marriage. The rest of us should support the eventual closing of this loophole (which the govt claims it is working on with its EU partners). There must not be automatic residency for all non-EU nationals married to Irish or EU citizens. If it were allowed, it would facilitate trafficking into this country and that is not acceptable. And this isn't about race - it's about our sovereign right to determine which non-EU nationals can and cannot have residency here as well as upholding the integrity of Irish marriage and residency law.

[eurosceptic]

Read in full. He says it will be raised only for a dramatic climbdown to divert attention away from the civil liberties dimension.
This confirms that the issue is a live one and there is tangible pressure for a single EU passport.

[locke]

But the problem there is sham marriages. It doesn't matter where the partners are from. I'm sure there are plenty of Irish citizens who have engaged in sham marriages too.

It was the same old tired approach from the government. Bring in a law that affects people who have done nothing wrong. Like the changes to the licensing laws, where people who had never been done for a drink related offence found themselves getting kicked out of pubs early. Laws should address the issue at hand, not be designed to facilitate lazy enforcement.

[eurosceptic]

Also if you read in full you will see how lisbon facilitates this. So it is pertinent in the current context.

[setanta]

Read in full. He says it will be raised only for a dramatic climbdown to divert attention away from the civil liberties dimension.
This confirms that the issue is a live one and there is tangible pressure for a single EU passport.

You really are full of sh it, ES.

You make a claim, It is comprehensively shot down. Yet, you continue to repeat the claim.

In this respect you are at least true to the dishonest tactics that europhobes adopted in the first Lisbon Treaty referendum campaign, i.e. make a claim, no matter how outlandish, and when it is shown to be untrue just keep on repeating it over and over in the hope that enough people will buy into the big lie.

[eurosceptic]

Personal attacks again from setanta when confronted by evidence.

[Watcher1]

Well setanta again you play the man and not the ball.
1- The story is old but it is now in a new pertininent context.
2- The telegraph has its agenda but no-one (even yes bloggers on this site - other than yourself of course) would accuse it of lying. It has excellent standards of journalism.
3- The irish harp would suffer exactly the same fate as the british coat of arms, so the story translates 100%.
4- See 2. The telegraph has solid reputation as a reputable newspaper, bruno waterfield is a highly respected journalist on european affairs.

Once again setanta you base your response exclusively on personal attacks.

I didn';t vote for Lisbon and I wont in Lisbon 2 but I dont see what all the fuss is about. So what, the harp will be gone from my passport. There are far bigger issues with Lisbon than the design of a bloody passport. ES, you are only harming thew cause for a no vote with this drivel.

[eurosceptic]

Watcher i think it is an important point. This is exactly the sort of thing thats downplayed before a referendum and something for which there is "no plan" or "no budget". While i concede there are bigger issues at stake i do think all the angles need to be covered. It is a big issue for me though.

[zeleneye]

Personal attacks again from setanta when confronted by evidence.

I'm sorry, what evidence?

A blog from Bruno saying that it won't happen?

Surely the title of your thread should just be "another eurosceptic myth".
You are always good for a laugh though ES, I'll give you that.